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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5743190" data-attributes="member: 48965">I can agree with this to a point... though I apparently don't feel that hardcoded role is necessarily a significant factor here, especially since many are arguing that the roles have always been in D&D (whether I agree with this or not is besides the point) just not "called out" as they are in 4e.  Eh, I would argue class is what feeds into paragon paths and role only in so much as it is hardcoded into a particular class. With one multi-class feat any character can jump into any paragon path they want, regardless of their role.   Hmmm, I've seen you make the same argument for power selection (which I think is a much stronger argument than the one you are presenting here.). Where a themed selection of powers gives a character identity in the fiction, that I can see... role=striker, not so much.  At any rate... I guess we can agree to disagree, as I see nothing in the above statement that revolves around a hard-coding of roles. My PC's have always had a clear identity in the fiction in every game we play and I think creating fictionally dramatic combats that have memorable parts is based much more heavily on DM encounter design than you seem to be giving it credit for... all IMO of course.  See and this is where I feel it might be that 4e does this particularly well... for permeton's sensibilities. Because in my experience the things you seem to think 4e does particularly well this can be accomplished with a number of systems that don't hard-code combat role into class.   The "something else" is that it now makes combat role selectable under the more general archetype/class umbrella as opposed to hardcoding a specific role into an entire class. IMO there's a big difference between every Paladin build is a defender and there are both striker and defender builds under the Paladin class/archetype. The first, IMO, is vastly more limiting in in the freedom to match archetype and gameplay style.</blockquote>

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