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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5745386" data-attributes="member: 27160">On the "DM dictating" thing I didn't particularly mean that as an "attribute" of any particular edition; I think you attribute far more "advocacy" to me post than was actually intended. I write to explain why I like what I like, not to demand that you like the same things. What I was listing was a selection of things that, from time to time, have been said to be "where it's at". Among these have been "the DM's story", "the DM's description of the world", "the character build" and "the elegant rules". I think that none of these is as appropriate a focus as what the players (including the GM) do, minute to minute, at the gaming table. Sure, they take place, but they are not the focus of admiration. I'm not claiming this is universal - just relating my experience. I do think that 4E supports this focus particularly well; not as well as it ideally could, but better than any other game system I have tried. I'll say a bit about why, below. Right; the "inherent to 4E" thing. First a statement I'm not going to try to "prove" - I hope it's fairly self-evident to an experienced RPer, but if not we'll just have to agree to disagree:Rules cannot control play style or table culture. They just can't. What they can do, however, is support particular playstyles by not "getting in their way". You can normally tell when a system is not supporting the preferred play style at a table, because you will see house rules - possibly in profusion.So, no, this style of play - these observations - are not "inherent" to 4E. But I do find that 4E is exceptionally good at supporting them. That is to say, when we play with the agenda for fun/kudos/admiration that I describe, I find I hardly need to houserule the system at all. Yep; 4E also seems to support this agenda fairly well. Some actually prefer it to 3.X because whareas, with 3.X, facility with character design can get you a character grossly more powerful than the "run of the mill", in 4E getting major (real) advantage is more of a challenge.That doesn't mean it doesn't also support the agenda I'm talking about, too. OK, I'll try to give a taster.  It applies mainly to combat; that is where in 4E it's most notable. Non-combat is an area where I think 4E could use a great deal of improvement - but I would really like to see it along the lines of supporting what I'm talking about here, and the current crop of designers seem to be drifting away from that, alas.4E combat has powers and abilities that are particularly well adjusted to pulling off "cool moves" mainly due to two things:1) they create situations by (forced) moving enemy, but applying conditions to opponents and by creating zones and areas of specific effects.2) they create specific, defined effects that translate directly to the game world. What I mean by this is they are not subject to adjudication, interpretation or negotiation. Charm or Domination powers, for example, make an enemy move or perhaps attack another - they do not make an enemy "do whatever the DM thinks won't trigger a self-preservation instinct" or other effects that are subject to negotiation. They do not create "illusions that make the monsters think there is someone down the corridor".This last, in particular, helps with unequivocally "neat" tactics. If the success of a move results from me winning a social status-game with the GM, I don't feel the same sense of "victory" as I do after a really cool move in 4E or in a board game. All I have done is best a friend of mine in a social manipulation or facedown; what I wanted to do was show off to them a cool, clever idea that they did not then have to rended a judgement over.Or when you attack. It's a set up for starting a conflict - once you are engaged (i.e. you attack someone) it ceases. Again - it lasts until the first hit. THPs last until they are used or you take a (short or extended) rest. Like the previous two, they set up an initial "jump", but go as the conflict is engaged in. As can Magic Items, levelling up and taking new powers... And this, I think, was pemerton's point. I'm not really interested in speculating what the rules designers' intentions or motives were - maybe you're right >shrug< I would distinguish between "preparing for an encounter" - setting up a surprise, recconnoitering the opposition, getting into position and so forth - and applying buffs that will last all day, or through several encounters, from temporary/renewable character resources.</blockquote>

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