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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5746893" data-attributes="member: 48965">Sorry about the long response time...  I didn't think you were demanding that I like certain things. As far as advocacy goes... perhaps I am attributing more of it towards your posts than I should, I think the fact that oftimes pemerton uses your posts as support for his particular ideas may contribute to that. As to focus, I don't think any of the things you've listed are necessarily more or less appropriate as a focus. In all honesty I would think a balance between these things (as opposed to focusing on one) would provide the most enjoyment, at least for my particular group of players... but then, I also feel that this lies in the realm of subjectivity as opposed to objectivity.   This is a strange statement to make, especially in a general sense. On the WotC CharOps boards I see lots of admiration around builds... but this seems, IMO, to be a cultural or playstyle thing... just as it was in 3.5. I'm not saying the focus of 4e can't be what you're claiming... I'm saying I don't see how it supports that over say the build admiration or even the admiration of a well built encounter, or any other thing a particualr group focuses on with the game.  Again, strange... you believe it's fairly self-evident to an experienced RPer... and yet I would say Enworld is made up of many experienced RPer's, some, at least, that don't agree with your statement. Perhaps your logic is flawed then but like you said we can agree to disagree.  A game having houserules doesn't necessarily mean it fails to support a preffered playstyle... it can mean it doesn't support it in the fashion that the particular houseruler would prefer.  As an example, there's no doubt that 4e technically supports backgrounds for characters... however many people do not like the way that it goes about doing this thus they make the choice to houserule backgrounds. This, however, doesn't prove that 4e doesn't support a playstyle that enjoys character backgrounds.  Okay perhaps you could give some concrete examples of how 4e supports this better than any other edition where the table has decided that there is where the focus will lie?  Allright so this seems to point towards a style choice just like I think your kudos/fun/accolades example does as well. I certainly can't think any previous editions (with the caveat that I have never played anything earlier than BECMI) of the game that has a problem facilitating this if that's the style of play the people at the table want.   That's exactly my point though, I see people speak to what 4e's laser focus is on (narrativism, light-gamist play.etc.) but IMO, it seems like 4e just works better for certain GM's and Players for facilitating the things other GM's easily got form earlier editions if they wanted that particular style or focus of play.  Now mechanically I think 4e does grid based, tactical combat with a laser focus (which is not to say that's all it does) but I don't see how it's better at manyy of the things claimed by it's proponents.  Again, with the possible exception of forced movement (and I believe though not common forced movement of enemies was in the realm of PC possibilities)... why isn't this possible in 3.5?  Ok, you had these things in 3.5... I'm trying to get at the heart of why they are "better" in 4e. Again, I keep getting the impression this boils down not to anything objective but to a measure of one's preference for how mechanics handle a certain thing.   It was my understanding that a buff (at least as far as I got from pemerton... sorry about the misspelling of your name), was something you could stick on your PC beforehand (after scouting out an encounter or at the beginning of the day) and walk around with it until you needed it for a combat... that's what all of those things do. Now we can get into specifics but from a general standpoint all the things I listed can be used to buff your PC beforehand which is something pemerton claimed could not be done in 4e.  Fair enough...  Well when you talk about Scry/Buff/Teleport then aren't you talking about all of those things? IMO, while 4e doesn't support them as fully as 3.5 did a clever PC can still Scry on his enemy. Buff himself up before the encounter, and Teleport there with the right resources... and that was the context I believed pemerton was speaking about this in.</blockquote>

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