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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5749891" data-attributes="member: 48965">Whether it's lame or not is purely suibjective and irrelevant when looking at it for our purposes. On a side note, it's interesting that the bladesinger has similar fluff that seems to point at it being a discrete and specific thing in the gameworld as opposed to a generic set of skills, abilities, etc. As to your example... IMO, the paladin of Torog is holding up the most lofty ideas...as percieved by those who worship a god of imprisonment and sacrifice. In 4e good and evil are no longer forces that have an active and discernable effect upon the world and thus belief seems to now reside in the domain of relativity and perception... not necessarily my preference for morality in a fantasy world, but whatever, the cries of alignment sucks won out.  EDIT: I wonder if a paladin of Torog who took on quests from others in order to do what they weren't willing (torture, imprisonment, etc.) to further or protect the greater good would still be considered "evil". He's promoting the domains of his god but also doing good (at least in his and some people's minds) As an example Jack Bauer from 24, tortured people and worse... yet most people considered him a hero. The wizard on the other hand, IMO, is not a paladin because he hasn't devoted his life and soul to promoting and championing the ideas of Ioun, and more importantly... Ioun has never empowered him like he has his true paladins... I also feel that any cleric, true paladin of Ioun, invoker of Ioun or avenger of Ioun would know this either inherently or with a religion check.   Uhmm, actually, IMO, this causes the fluff to make even less sense. blackguards are specifically called out as the sinister counterparts of paladins. If you're scenario is true then a particular build of a class becomes the "sinister counterpart" of any and every class? That seems unnecessarily limiting and narrow even as just pure fluff. IMO, it makes much more sense if paladin = class (archetype) and the blackguard is the sinister counterpart of that very specific class (archetype).</blockquote>

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