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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3789632" data-attributes="member: 5143">The problem with that is that the fighter is already relegated to the Defender role.  As a straight classed fighter, there is no way to play another role.  Well, they might have a total of two roles: Defender and Damage Dealer.  Only they aren't the best Defender.  If I wanted a really high AC and to protect my party from harm, I'd go with Cleric, Druid, or Wizard first.  For the most part I seem them relegated to damage dealer and hit point sponge.Except that wizards (depending on which version of the rules you are using) were able to polymorph to increase hitpoints and fort saves.  If they start with a 16+ con, take Improved Toughness and cast a (empowered/maximized) False Life they can have hit points pretty darn close to those of most fighters.  They can cast teleport and dimension door even while in grapples with a half decent concentration check allowing them to leave grapple when they want.  They can cast bear's endurance for more hitpoints, better fort saves, etc.  Plus, they can plug the disadvantages with magic items.I admit the clerics WOULD be more powerful, but not THAT much more powerful.  The wizards have such a huge benefit in being able to target the exact weakness of every enemy in order to take them out in a round or two(force spells for incorporeal creatures, damage for glass cannon creatures, will saves against brutes, fort saves against casters, etc)So you end up with two options:  Change the concept of the class OR Accept that fighters will never be as powerful or as versatile as wizards.If you simply state that magic is too hard to learn in its entirety in the "current D&D world" and that people who dabble in it have to specialize, since no one person could learn it ALL, then it solves a lot of problems.  Wizards are the ones who learn controlling magic, Swordmages specialize in protection magic and using their abilities with a weapon, Some other class specializes in magic that increases the strength of their allies and helps them to work together.Then no ONE class eclipses the rest since it has the role of "Whatever I want to do I'm the best at it."</blockquote>

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