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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 5530419" data-attributes="member: 32740">When everyone is standing about, arguing, thinking, doing anything and everything except just setting to combat then you are willingly sacrificing natural initiative advantages you might have.&nbsp; I'm not talking about kicking in the dungeon door, seeing the orcs, and then the first one at the table to say, &quot;I attack!&quot; wins intiative.&nbsp; This is a particular circumstance we're talking about here and even rolling intiative with extra advantages disregards the circumstances, favoring the rule of Rules rather than what makes more sense.&nbsp; The rules can't and don't cover all circumstances.&nbsp; Q.E.D.&nbsp;In 3E rules this is represented by the feat Quick Draw.&nbsp; Just having a bonus adjustement to your initiative rolls does NOT mean you always get a CHANCE to act first.&nbsp;Everything about initiative assumes that everybody involved DOES want to act first.&nbsp; When EVERYONE opts not to act first the rules just don't cover that eventuality.&nbsp; As DM in this situation you have just one way to proceed.&nbsp; If you decide combat has NOT begun (obviously it hasn't if there is no surprise and nobody has rolled initiaitve yet) then you can force the issue - tell everyone to roll intiative and everyone gets their chance to act.&nbsp; If they choose NOT to that's THEIR problem.&nbsp; The first one to DO something effectively sets the top of the initiative order - anyone with initiative bonuses BLEW IT.&nbsp;All my approach does is save the the repeated run-through of UNEVENTFUL initiative orders and wait for determination of initiative for everyone else until somebody actually takes action.&nbsp;If someone says, &quot;_I_ will finally take action,&quot; in a stand-off situation it sure seems silly to ME to then roll dice to determine the order in which people act and potentially find out that the one who STARTED it - really didn't start it all because he's going last in the order.&nbsp; No, when everyone has had ample opportunity to start the fight and done nothing, then the one to CHOOSE to act is indeed the first to act and everyone else gets to scramble for seconds.&nbsp; The opponent facing the first to act might have quick reflexes but by GIVING UP moment after moment the opportunity to actually attack he gives up the advantage that his reflexes affords.&nbsp; He is WAITING for someone else to act, and NOT acting first because his reactions enable him to act first.&nbsp; Failure to take action when you have MORE than ample opportunity to do so (and that IS what a standoff situation does) has the consequence of losing other advantages you might have had to act first.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 5530419, member: 32740"] When everyone is standing about, arguing, thinking, doing anything and everything except just setting to combat then you are willingly sacrificing natural initiative advantages you might have. I'm not talking about kicking in the dungeon door, seeing the orcs, and then the first one at the table to say, "I attack!" wins intiative. This is a particular circumstance we're talking about here and even rolling intiative with extra advantages disregards the circumstances, favoring the rule of Rules rather than what makes more sense. The rules can't and don't cover all circumstances. Q.E.D. In 3E rules this is represented by the feat Quick Draw. Just having a bonus adjustement to your initiative rolls does NOT mean you always get a CHANCE to act first. Everything about initiative assumes that everybody involved DOES want to act first. When EVERYONE opts not to act first the rules just don't cover that eventuality. As DM in this situation you have just one way to proceed. If you decide combat has NOT begun (obviously it hasn't if there is no surprise and nobody has rolled initiaitve yet) then you can force the issue - tell everyone to roll intiative and everyone gets their chance to act. If they choose NOT to that's THEIR problem. The first one to DO something effectively sets the top of the initiative order - anyone with initiative bonuses BLEW IT. All my approach does is save the the repeated run-through of UNEVENTFUL initiative orders and wait for determination of initiative for everyone else until somebody actually takes action. If someone says, "_I_ will finally take action," in a stand-off situation it sure seems silly to ME to then roll dice to determine the order in which people act and potentially find out that the one who STARTED it - really didn't start it all because he's going last in the order. No, when everyone has had ample opportunity to start the fight and done nothing, then the one to CHOOSE to act is indeed the first to act and everyone else gets to scramble for seconds. The opponent facing the first to act might have quick reflexes but by GIVING UP moment after moment the opportunity to actually attack he gives up the advantage that his reflexes affords. He is WAITING for someone else to act, and NOT acting first because his reactions enable him to act first. Failure to take action when you have MORE than ample opportunity to do so (and that IS what a standoff situation does) has the consequence of losing other advantages you might have had to act first. [/QUOTE]

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