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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9744100" data-attributes="member: 18">Ooooh good example! Yes that.The trouble with that is, unless the DM is unusually reasonable and realistic, this often turns into an exercise of "roll until you fail" (in binary pass/fail systems). Like, it's one thing to assign a roll to a whole attempt to do a certain, important, meaningful, consequential thing, like argue a local lord into giving the party a special permit to do something normally illegal, like visit the Shrine of a Thousand Dark Sages, but to separate out a check for also making him pay you double to take down the bandit lord who dwells nearby. That's fine. It's quite another when - and I've seen this many times IRL, especially back in 3E, so this is not at all theoretical - the DM is basically calling for a roll every single time anyone suggests anything at all or even says anything. Diplomacy check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check, Diplomacy Check oh you failed well the conversation is over and you don't get what you want even though you succeeded on like 10 bloody rolls in a row which should be worth something! We nearly had a revolt in a 5E session where the DM was doing that (and even forgetting in 5E it's called Persuasion). Eventually we had to stop him when he called for a roll when a PC hadn't even arguably tried to ask the NPC for anything or convince him of anything, and be like "What are you having us roll for here, exactly?"! He didn't really know lol. But after that he got a lot better at only calling for rolls then there was actually something with consequences and where it made sense.It's not the "other end" though. That's just a nonsense-thing people made up, that's never actually happened in a game not populated solely by 14 year olds goofing around, or perhaps by a player essentially being very mean to an insanely naive DM who never actually read the rules and who doesn't realize that you can't just mindlessly assign a DC to everything (which also probably means 14 year olds).</blockquote>

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