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<blockquote data-quote="Nevvur" data-source="post: 7356412" data-attributes="member: 6783882">Nearly the exact situation I originally outlined appears on p.245 of the DMG. Briefly, the DM is supposed to determine whether the aid described is actually helpful, and apply advantage or disadvantage as appropriate. So just as you said.It's also kind of beside the point, but I'll acknowledge the unintentional red herring. Tom shouldn't have declared he's taking advantage, but then I didn't mean to precipitate a discussion specifically on player and DM agency relating to the help action or working together rule. I was simply illustrating the premise of a player reacting belatedly to a story being invented moment to moment. It's a question of reconciling the dissonance between PCs existing in adventuring scenarios and players sitting around a table pretending to be those people. I'm curious to examine the still unformed narrative when the die has been cast and the DM is piecing the elements together, when from out of the darkness a player hearkens, &quot;Wait a sec!&quot; in the hope of we haz moar dice!!1</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nevvur, post: 7356412, member: 6783882"] Nearly the exact situation I originally outlined appears on p.245 of the DMG. Briefly, the DM is supposed to determine whether the aid described is actually helpful, and apply advantage or disadvantage as appropriate. So just as you said. It's also kind of beside the point, but I'll acknowledge the unintentional red herring. Tom shouldn't have declared he's taking advantage, but then I didn't mean to precipitate a discussion specifically on player and DM agency relating to the help action or working together rule. I was simply illustrating the premise of a player reacting belatedly to a story being invented moment to moment. It's a question of reconciling the dissonance between PCs existing in adventuring scenarios and players sitting around a table pretending to be those people. I'm curious to examine the still unformed narrative when the die has been cast and the DM is piecing the elements together, when from out of the darkness a player hearkens, "Wait a sec!" in the hope of [I]we haz moar dice!!1[/I] [/QUOTE]

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