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Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mgrancey" data-source="post: 6656572" data-attributes="member: 6701642"><p>Right, this is going to be a bit complex but I am going to attempt to keep it as precise and unbiased as possible.</p><p></p><p>First, Pricing for Fantasy Grounds. With a recent change in policy, only a couple of months ago, there are two license types. Subscription (new) and single purchase (traditional). There is a demo license as well, but its only good for trying out FG, as only Demo License with GM license or Unlimited Demo with an Ultimate license (either Subscript or Purchase).</p><p></p><p>Subscription: $4/month for GM/Player; $10/month for Ultimate License.</p><p>Purchase: Demo $0; GM $40; Ultimate $150; GM to Ultimate $115.</p><p></p><p>The only difference between GM and Ultimate is hosting for those without a license for FG, most users of FG have a license. Now yes, it can be a big initial investment if you go Ultimate right off, which is the price everyone likes to point at and say 'look how expensive FG is', <strong>BUT </strong>don't forget that to run you only need a GM license which is the cost of a <u>single RPG book </u>or about <u>3 boxes of minis</u>.</p><p></p><p>With a license (including Demo) you will get: </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The mechanics for: <strong>DnD 3.5</strong> and Basic Content (Players Guide, Monsters, Spells); <strong>Pathfinder</strong> and(Players Guide, Monsters, Spells); <strong>DnD 4e</strong> (no content due to license); <strong>DnD 5e</strong> (Purchasable), <strong>Cypher System</strong> (no content); <strong>CoreRPG </strong>(not explaining it here); </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Default Tokens: Letter (Small and Medium size); Fantasy Human/Humanoid, Animal, and Monsterous Tokens </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Battlemaps (14 when I open it now) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Crit/Fumble tables for D20 systems </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Calendars with Journal entries </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fantasy portraits for character sheets </li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 12px">FANTASY GROUNDS</span></strong></p><p>Basic use of Fantasy Grounds III doesn't take long, as a user its fairly easy to pick up enough to play or run basic stuff within 1 to 3 sessions depending on how proficient you are with software. Advanced use does take longer and have a steeper learning curve, but this is not necessary to be able to run or play. FG has alot of built in stuff for it and even more from community support (most of my contributions have been minor compared to some of the me adamant supporters). </p><p></p><p><strong><u>Basic use/features:</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Character sheets with Auto-fill, click/double click for rolls; drag and drop features, items, spells </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Random Roll tables </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Combat Tracker; Drag and drop fillable </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Story Entries uses a book/notebook format (mostly basic html formats, couple of nice extras such as links and box text) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Images and Maps with grids, some layers, basic fog of war (rectangles, circles, and freehand), there is a practical size limit as well as archive limit. Pins which link to other content. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Notes: Shareable between players or personal; </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Basic Settings for campaign; including dice tower for hidden rolls, whether players can see rolls, seeing gm, effects, token scaling and Health awareness between party and enemies </li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>Advanced Use/features</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Effects; Rogue using poison, psycher going insane, this allows usual conditions to be placed on a pc/npc and then automatically tracked for duration. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Targeting: Can get bit complicated but makes use of FG's automation for attack, damage and effects </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Party Sheet; Allows Players to check on others loot, stuff that is in general pool, setup a standard marching or watch order </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Modifiers: Like effects, some are prebuilt for some rulesets like cover, improved cover, or concealment and total concealment. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">NPCs and Encounter building: You can setup prebuilt groups of npcs, like a pack of wolves, a party of orcs, or a patrol of robots. Click a button and they are in the combat tracker </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Story Entries: You can link pretty much everything in here, images/maps, items, loot packs, npc(s), other story entires. It simple depends on how far you want to take it. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pre-built groupings: You can setup npcs, and items/gold into prebuilt packages and with a click of a button distribute them to combat tracker or party </li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>Pros/Cons</u></strong></p><p>FG is a wonderful program, outside of setup it can handle alot of the mundane crap that bogs down a GM such as tracking damage and what's been rolled or not rolled. That being said, setup, for a campaign will take a fair bit of time if you want to do it right. Its possible to do it quicker and leaner but this can show during game play as the gm has to copy then paste or write out what is being said. The same can be said for players, setting up your character can be done quickly, but to get the most out of it you have to take more time and make a more complete character sheet (Settiing up spells or effects for your character)</p><p></p><p>There is a small but strong core of supporters who help improve and make it better as time progresses, while there is no official support for some systems there are a number of community made modules (content), extensions (rules/mechanics modification), and rulesets (a particular system such as Exalted, 13th Age, etc. Official Content can be a bit slow about coming out as there is a somewhat limited group of people who do make this content.</p><p></p><p>Importing content (images of various types) has been made much easier a couple of updates ago with the ability to open a normal window to windows so you can select what you want.</p><p></p><p>Yes, if you are a Mac user you are on the slack end for FG, however they are working on converting FG from (I forget it was initially built with) to using the Unity engine.</p><p></p><p>FG doesn't require the internet, yes that is probably how 99% of its use happens, however if you want to use it help you run at a table (which I have done for conventions, only need my tablet and no searching through a pdf (click, here's the badies; click here's the content on this room).</p><p></p><p>FG doesn't support a couple of the features that have become standard for other VTTs, this being built in Audio, Video, and 'Dynamic Lighting'. The first two are no big problem to fix there are two teamspeak servers one in USA (NYC) and one in Europe (London I believe). Video can be handled other ways well. Dynamic Lighting sounds cool and it probably is, but I am pretty sure you have to take the time to set it up to work properly.</p><p></p><p>Personally, the reason I went with FG was the fact that it supported multiple rulesets, Savage Worlds and DnD being the two I was most interested in at the time, the Cypher System has been a nice addition as well. I am able to put everything I wanted as a GM and once setup we can get busy playing and not busy doing all the stuff that isn't as much fun.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">ROLL20</span></p><p>I haven't used Roll20 much or in awhile, took a quick peek as GM to see what had changed but still seems largely the same to me just with some new features. </p><p>Roll20 is at its base a shared map with built in A/V and a bunch of extras tagged on. Since the last time I looked at it, it has improved with character sheets and nearly everything else being focused on presenting an image or map.</p><p></p><p>If there is anyway to put information that I want handy for a campaign I don't see anything that stands out for where to put it. I don't see any easy way to setup NPCs or sort them. I am not saying there isn't a way just nothing that stands out when playing around it for a bit.</p><p></p><p>As far as money goes, its either basic and free or you have to pay to get better access, most go for either $5/month or $50/year OR $10/month or $100/year for the mentor subscription, which is what is seems you need to be able to make additions to Roll20. It seems from looking at the subscription that is you want to move anything from one campaign or another you have to pay.</p><p></p><p>Adding images is probably easier than in FG as its all setup for drag and drop but I don't see much else to it, so you would need a PDF or book as well to go with the browser open to Roll20. Additionally, it has built in access to Google for assets (images and sounds) which gives it a huge potential of content, but the free access has a limit of 5MB per item and 100MB per campaign which is a good bit and probably wont be used up unless you use alot of big files.</p><p></p><p>Please understand I am not trashing Roll20, but I did find it lacking as a VTT as it is largely focused on maps/images. My first and formative experiences were with friends playing Classic World of Darkness and at best we had a white board for sketching out the area and locations, it was only later with getting into DnD that exact distances become so, irritatingly at times, important.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>SUMMARY</p><p></p><p>In the end it is ultimately going to depend on what you want out of a VTT and what value it holds to you. Fantasy Grounds with some work and setup can hold everything you need to play and be self-contained. I've have used it with great success at conventions. I walk in with my map, my gm's tool box which will hold the minis I need, spare dice for players, markers, pens and pencils and my laptop. I need a spell, I click the link to it from the npc's character sheet or search it from the module in FG. I know a number of fellows who need the big luggage containers to hold all their books and a backpack for all the rest.</p><p></p><p>I have built modules for FG and ran a number of one shots, ran Deadlands: The Flood, played in several campaigns to various points and while I have been off of it for awhile that is because I have moved and been settling into my new job. However, I can say I haven't looked at other VTTs since I got FG (ultimate license) because I am extremely satisfied with it. Yes I have to use Teamspeak for voice communications but that is not a hassle and to make a big deal about it, I think shows how weak the competition is that they have to go to something that minor as a complaint.</p><p></p><p>Roll20 has a number of bells and whistles that make a lot of people like it, and they all see the FREE and don't think much of it. Their campaign page for something is better than what FG has, but that's not much to say either.</p><p></p><p>Yes Fantasy Grounds doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a lot of the newer VTT's have, but it has core of what RPGs are down pat, down very very $1,000,000 pat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As a Final note, I should add that with my last royalties check I have paid off nearly everything I have bought for FG from content I have converted for FG modules which I haven't been doing for about 8 months. And the two big ones were campaigns I had put together to run Deadlands: The Flood and S&R Catalog for Deadlands.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mgrancey, post: 6656572, member: 6701642"] Right, this is going to be a bit complex but I am going to attempt to keep it as precise and unbiased as possible. First, Pricing for Fantasy Grounds. With a recent change in policy, only a couple of months ago, there are two license types. Subscription (new) and single purchase (traditional). There is a demo license as well, but its only good for trying out FG, as only Demo License with GM license or Unlimited Demo with an Ultimate license (either Subscript or Purchase). Subscription: $4/month for GM/Player; $10/month for Ultimate License. Purchase: Demo $0; GM $40; Ultimate $150; GM to Ultimate $115. The only difference between GM and Ultimate is hosting for those without a license for FG, most users of FG have a license. Now yes, it can be a big initial investment if you go Ultimate right off, which is the price everyone likes to point at and say 'look how expensive FG is', [B]BUT [/B]don't forget that to run you only need a GM license which is the cost of a [U]single RPG book [/U]or about [U]3 boxes of minis[/U]. With a license (including Demo) you will get: [LIST] [*]The mechanics for: [B]DnD 3.5[/B] and Basic Content (Players Guide, Monsters, Spells); [B]Pathfinder[/B] and(Players Guide, Monsters, Spells); [B]DnD 4e[/B] (no content due to license); [B]DnD 5e[/B] (Purchasable), [B]Cypher System[/B] (no content); [B]CoreRPG [/B](not explaining it here); [*]Default Tokens: Letter (Small and Medium size); Fantasy Human/Humanoid, Animal, and Monsterous Tokens [*]Battlemaps (14 when I open it now) [*]Crit/Fumble tables for D20 systems [*]Calendars with Journal entries [*]Fantasy portraits for character sheets [/LIST] [B][SIZE=3]FANTASY GROUNDS[/SIZE][/B] Basic use of Fantasy Grounds III doesn't take long, as a user its fairly easy to pick up enough to play or run basic stuff within 1 to 3 sessions depending on how proficient you are with software. Advanced use does take longer and have a steeper learning curve, but this is not necessary to be able to run or play. FG has alot of built in stuff for it and even more from community support (most of my contributions have been minor compared to some of the me adamant supporters). [B][U]Basic use/features:[/U][/B] [LIST] [*]Character sheets with Auto-fill, click/double click for rolls; drag and drop features, items, spells [*]Random Roll tables [*]Combat Tracker; Drag and drop fillable [*]Story Entries uses a book/notebook format (mostly basic html formats, couple of nice extras such as links and box text) [*]Images and Maps with grids, some layers, basic fog of war (rectangles, circles, and freehand), there is a practical size limit as well as archive limit. Pins which link to other content. [*]Notes: Shareable between players or personal; [*]Basic Settings for campaign; including dice tower for hidden rolls, whether players can see rolls, seeing gm, effects, token scaling and Health awareness between party and enemies [/LIST] [B][U]Advanced Use/features[/U][/B] [LIST] [*]Effects; Rogue using poison, psycher going insane, this allows usual conditions to be placed on a pc/npc and then automatically tracked for duration. [*]Targeting: Can get bit complicated but makes use of FG's automation for attack, damage and effects [*]Party Sheet; Allows Players to check on others loot, stuff that is in general pool, setup a standard marching or watch order [*]Modifiers: Like effects, some are prebuilt for some rulesets like cover, improved cover, or concealment and total concealment. [*]NPCs and Encounter building: You can setup prebuilt groups of npcs, like a pack of wolves, a party of orcs, or a patrol of robots. Click a button and they are in the combat tracker [*]Story Entries: You can link pretty much everything in here, images/maps, items, loot packs, npc(s), other story entires. It simple depends on how far you want to take it. [*]Pre-built groupings: You can setup npcs, and items/gold into prebuilt packages and with a click of a button distribute them to combat tracker or party [/LIST] [B][U]Pros/Cons[/U][/B] FG is a wonderful program, outside of setup it can handle alot of the mundane crap that bogs down a GM such as tracking damage and what's been rolled or not rolled. That being said, setup, for a campaign will take a fair bit of time if you want to do it right. Its possible to do it quicker and leaner but this can show during game play as the gm has to copy then paste or write out what is being said. The same can be said for players, setting up your character can be done quickly, but to get the most out of it you have to take more time and make a more complete character sheet (Settiing up spells or effects for your character) There is a small but strong core of supporters who help improve and make it better as time progresses, while there is no official support for some systems there are a number of community made modules (content), extensions (rules/mechanics modification), and rulesets (a particular system such as Exalted, 13th Age, etc. Official Content can be a bit slow about coming out as there is a somewhat limited group of people who do make this content. Importing content (images of various types) has been made much easier a couple of updates ago with the ability to open a normal window to windows so you can select what you want. Yes, if you are a Mac user you are on the slack end for FG, however they are working on converting FG from (I forget it was initially built with) to using the Unity engine. FG doesn't require the internet, yes that is probably how 99% of its use happens, however if you want to use it help you run at a table (which I have done for conventions, only need my tablet and no searching through a pdf (click, here's the badies; click here's the content on this room). FG doesn't support a couple of the features that have become standard for other VTTs, this being built in Audio, Video, and 'Dynamic Lighting'. The first two are no big problem to fix there are two teamspeak servers one in USA (NYC) and one in Europe (London I believe). Video can be handled other ways well. Dynamic Lighting sounds cool and it probably is, but I am pretty sure you have to take the time to set it up to work properly. Personally, the reason I went with FG was the fact that it supported multiple rulesets, Savage Worlds and DnD being the two I was most interested in at the time, the Cypher System has been a nice addition as well. I am able to put everything I wanted as a GM and once setup we can get busy playing and not busy doing all the stuff that isn't as much fun. [SIZE=3]ROLL20[/SIZE] I haven't used Roll20 much or in awhile, took a quick peek as GM to see what had changed but still seems largely the same to me just with some new features. Roll20 is at its base a shared map with built in A/V and a bunch of extras tagged on. Since the last time I looked at it, it has improved with character sheets and nearly everything else being focused on presenting an image or map. If there is anyway to put information that I want handy for a campaign I don't see anything that stands out for where to put it. I don't see any easy way to setup NPCs or sort them. I am not saying there isn't a way just nothing that stands out when playing around it for a bit. As far as money goes, its either basic and free or you have to pay to get better access, most go for either $5/month or $50/year OR $10/month or $100/year for the mentor subscription, which is what is seems you need to be able to make additions to Roll20. It seems from looking at the subscription that is you want to move anything from one campaign or another you have to pay. Adding images is probably easier than in FG as its all setup for drag and drop but I don't see much else to it, so you would need a PDF or book as well to go with the browser open to Roll20. Additionally, it has built in access to Google for assets (images and sounds) which gives it a huge potential of content, but the free access has a limit of 5MB per item and 100MB per campaign which is a good bit and probably wont be used up unless you use alot of big files. Please understand I am not trashing Roll20, but I did find it lacking as a VTT as it is largely focused on maps/images. My first and formative experiences were with friends playing Classic World of Darkness and at best we had a white board for sketching out the area and locations, it was only later with getting into DnD that exact distances become so, irritatingly at times, important. SUMMARY In the end it is ultimately going to depend on what you want out of a VTT and what value it holds to you. Fantasy Grounds with some work and setup can hold everything you need to play and be self-contained. I've have used it with great success at conventions. I walk in with my map, my gm's tool box which will hold the minis I need, spare dice for players, markers, pens and pencils and my laptop. I need a spell, I click the link to it from the npc's character sheet or search it from the module in FG. I know a number of fellows who need the big luggage containers to hold all their books and a backpack for all the rest. I have built modules for FG and ran a number of one shots, ran Deadlands: The Flood, played in several campaigns to various points and while I have been off of it for awhile that is because I have moved and been settling into my new job. However, I can say I haven't looked at other VTTs since I got FG (ultimate license) because I am extremely satisfied with it. Yes I have to use Teamspeak for voice communications but that is not a hassle and to make a big deal about it, I think shows how weak the competition is that they have to go to something that minor as a complaint. Roll20 has a number of bells and whistles that make a lot of people like it, and they all see the FREE and don't think much of it. Their campaign page for something is better than what FG has, but that's not much to say either. Yes Fantasy Grounds doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a lot of the newer VTT's have, but it has core of what RPGs are down pat, down very very $1,000,000 pat. As a Final note, I should add that with my last royalties check I have paid off nearly everything I have bought for FG from content I have converted for FG modules which I haven't been doing for about 8 months. And the two big ones were campaigns I had put together to run Deadlands: The Flood and S&R Catalog for Deadlands. [/QUOTE]
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