D&D 5E (2014) Roll20 vs Fantasy Grounds

[LordEntrails]

Thanks for the feedback, LordEntrails.

You are welcome. Hope it helps.

 

[Frankenstein]

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Very busy so i made a quick post until I had time.
My intention is not to offend you or anyone but to be heard and share my experience. With that said, I am not in the least articulate and can come off blunt or crass, and many things might have come off wrong or have been structured grammatically incorrect.

First, let me say that I appreciate that you have taken the time to post this. Though without trying to be defensive or protective, but I think you have made some unfair, uncommon experiences or misleading statements that you make.

I think everyone deserves a fair shake, so hopefully you can provide constructive feedback on my questions.


I always find comments about the difference in learning curves interesting. I have come to the conclusion that it depends more upon the person that the software. I found myself unable to intuitively understand Roll20. Whereas FG, the basic of it, I never had a problem with. Never needed to read the manual or watch a video. It does seem that more people may find the Roll20 UI easier to learn than the FG one, but it is dependent upon the user (and, based upon my experience teaching other software programs, the users expectations and attitude).

It is wonderful that you didn't have to read a manual or watch a video (not sarcastic), but then that is your experience. Mine is just as valid. I am a user and find it easier to use roll20 as do my players. Using your logic, since Roll20 is browser based, the majority of users will find it easier since the majority know how to use a browser. I also found it interesting that a lot of FG users themselves also find that it has a learning curve. It is fine if you disagree, but facts are facts and it seems you are an outlier. This is the reason for the built in tutorial for FG and the numerous videos by Xorn and Dulux-Oz to name a few. Not to mention all the videos by Doug at FG. That should be a good indication that there is a learning curve which is what I stated, but I digress.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8827.html
http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-21709.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?514874-Roll20-vs-Fantasy-Grounds
https://www.reddit.com/r/FantasyGrounds/comments/6jizti/trying_to_talk_dm_into_fantasy_grounds/
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5sjffz/should_i_choose_roll20_or_fantasy_ground_if_the/

Comprehensive Review:
http://www.gamebynight.com/?p=4126

This was recently discussed on the FG forums (here). And the technical and legal reasons why where also mentioned. So, maybe this could be done, but probably not given the licensing requirements from WotC. I would be surprised if Roll20 had this capability, and if not, then it's not particularly fair to complain about something like this. Plus the fact that comes dow to the desire to have a link to

You response is very misleading. If you continue to read the thread, the reason for not doing it wasn't about licensing but about not wanting to have fluff only links. According to the thread they are changing it, so this is resolved which is great. I agree it seemed it came down to 'the desire to have links' in that thread. So, what. Your saying that the OP in that thread doesn't have a right to think that is important. If you don't like 'fluff' links that is fine, but that doesn't mean the OP can't post that they like and want them. It seems you are belittling the OPs idea which I don't feel is a great way to get your contrary opinion across to others.

As far as Roll20 and links, you can create your own links and add them to character sheets and handouts using markdown as well as them having the drag and drop compendium.

As far as what is fair to complain about, I don't think fair has anything to do with it. Using your logic, if it had anything to do with being fair then you should use roll20 for an equal amount of time before biasedly backing FG or sharing your opinions. It's not fair that I had a bad experience and yours was good, but such is life. It was, however, my experience, so it has nothing to do with what you, or anyone, thinks is fair. As stated, it was and is my opinion which I am entitled, through membership of this site, to have and share just as freely as you.

This was recently identified by a user on the forums, and has already been slated to be fixed in the next update. See here. So it seems to me like FG is exceptionally responsive to user reports and errata. My understanding is the Roll20 is not (and often doesn't even disposition such issues.)

Again, if these are reported, they are fixed in the next update. So, if you have found any such discrepencies, all you have to do is report them and they will be fixed.

Your understanding is incorrect about roll20 with the only exception being that of the video and chat option. Other than that they are very responsive to the needs of the community and recently have been more active on the video and chat as well. The grammar and spelling errors I mentioned was just a observation. I wasn't implying that FG wouldn't fix it or that I, or anyone else, shouldn't tell them about the errors. I wasn't saying Roll20 doesn't have errors either. I honestly was just sharing but I hope that clarifies it for you.

If there is a picture of the creature in the MM, then it has a picture token for it. If there is no picture for it in the MM, then where is the picture supposed to come from? Again, any missing pictures just have to be reported (though I doubt there are any currently) and they will be fixed promptly.

I didn't say that any MM token that was suppose to have a picture was missing one. I said that FG uses lettered tokens for some of the monsters. Roll20 has all of them as they hired an artist to do them. This was a comparison between the two and hope that clarifies.

The NPC tab/list (and all the other lists) can use the groups and filters to restrict the list to what you want to display. It actually has all of the capabilities of version 3.2 tabs, and a lot more as well. Plus, it also allows for architecture changes that are required for the Unity version.

Great. I don't like it. I prefer it the way it was before the update. As stated this was just my opinion.

Your statement about resource issues is extremely misleading if not simple wrong. First, the number of NPCs in the list does not affect memory usage. Second, if you are running on a 32-bit operating system, then EVERY application on that computer, is limited to about 2GB. If you are on a 64-bit OS, then the limit is somewhere over 3GB. Something I've never hit myself.

I understand the memory limits for an OS, but thanks for mentioning it for others that might not. As far as the NPCs in the list, it does most certainly affect usage. If I close the MM module the memory usage drops considerably. I have had a few of my players as well as other members of FG test this as well. It also increases memory usage depending on how many windows are open as well. If I recall there is even a thread on the forum about this if you want to search. So, no not misleading or incorrect.

Again, the UI intuitiveness is a user/person specific thing. I've never had a problem understanding how to use it, neither have my players.

Correct that you have to load an extension for having map layers. But again, it's never been a usability issue for me. But I understand that for some people it certainly is. (And it is a valuable issue to identify for those comparing the two.)

I understand the map just fine in FG. It was the intuitiveness of it I was comparing to roll20 which is much more intuitive. If it was intuitive to you, that is great, but for most it isn't by the FG communities own admission.

This comment I find disturbing, because it is certainly vastly different than what I have experienced.

I have found customer service to be exceptional on the few occasions I have reached out to them. The community support has also been exceptional, the community prides itself on being helpful and open. And the few times I've seen a post that was not, other members quickly jumped in to correct the situation. That doesn't mean that people are always given the answer they are hoping for, but even obvious trolls have been treated as if they were not.

Perhaps you could link to an example? I'm sure the FG community would want to address such an occurrence.

In general I won't comment on this, because after trying Roll20 for a couple of weeks I decided on FG, so you obviously are a better authority than myself on it.

This is what I would hope to hear about any customer service group. Apparently our experiences are vastly different though. Because with the three questions I asked them I received no response for 2 of them. The other I was told to read the website, and then no response when I stated I had and still had questions.

Yes we have had different experiences and I am sorry your experience wasn't better with Roll20.

I want to clarify that I meant the forums and not emailing support or customer service directly. Emailing support directly has been an enjoyable experience. I apologize for the unclarity in the words I choose to use.
As far as linking a post, I don't feel comfortable doing that at this time as I don't want to deal with the inevitable barrage of over protective FG members.

 

[xanstin]

This question has become like asking 4E vs 5E or any other edition war, two sides feverishly argue why their choice is best. I love it to me it's just that many more people playing . I personally used Roll20 for a year with macros and custom API then converted to FG and never looked back. First couple sessions with FG is like trying to drink water from a waterfall but once you see all the underlying automation that requires zero user API it changes your game. Roll 20 does have better off the cuff mapping ability but as far as modules and pre loaded maps they are about the same. I don't even know how well I can run a table in person at this point because of how vast the automation is in FG.


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[Dax Doomslayer]

This question has become like asking 4E vs 5E or any other edition war, two sides feverishly argue why their choice is best. I love it to me it's just that many more people playing . I personally used Roll20 for a year with macros and custom API then converted to FG and never looked back. First couple sessions with FG is like trying to drink water from a waterfall but once you see all the underlying automation that requires zero user API it changes your game. Roll 20 does have better off the cuff mapping ability but as far as modules and pre loaded maps they are about the same. I don't even know how well I can run a table in person at this point because of how vast the automation is in FG.


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I agree xanstin. At times, support of one or the other does seem to become a religion it seems. I've tried both and both have strengths and weaknesses. Our group went through the process of determining what was best for us and FG works better. I found while FG may (or may not) have a learning curve (it did for me but those videos pretty much got me off and running as I'm the DM), it wasn't overly burdensome. In addition, I found the FG boards to be extremely helpful. My main attraction to FG is the automation and not needing to do any of those macros and custom APIs. I find it ultimately easier to use once you 'get the hang of it'. That said, my opinion is, whatever keeps you playing and allows you to continue to enjoy the hobby we all love, more power to you!!! FG has allowed this for my group which scattered to the wind and I'm pretty happy playing more than I've played in a while!!

 

[xanstin]

One thing I will strongly disagree with is lack of support from FG. Their forum has their dev team answer you directly and even faster on Discord. I have had responses in less than an hour about bugs.

Even more so the CEO Doug Davidson comes on here, other forums and discord and responds to people. I have yet to see any other company do that and as much as he does. He is a gamer and I have buddies that are part of games he participates in. I can't even say enough good things about his participation in the hobby and community.

Also their forums are very welcoming and helpful and like other have mentioned plenty of tutorials around regardless of source. Their official 5E wiki is also immensely helpful for any custom effects not included in spells/powers already.


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[LordEntrails]

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Very busy so i made a quick post until I had time.
My intention is not to offend you or anyone but to be heard and share my experience. With that said, I am not in the least articulate and can come off blunt or crass, and many things might have come off wrong or have been structured grammatically incorrect.

Thank you for the time.

I too am not the clearest / most articulate writer and neither did any of my comments mean to belittle your views. Your views are certainly as valid as mine, and again, I never meant to say or imply otherwise.

 

[lkj]

As good a place to ask as any-- But over on the roll20 forums, one of the devs mentioned that tonight they'd be showing off some feature that was 'one of the most requested ever'. Anyone hear what that was?

AD

It was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO5vG7TyLQ0

"Fog & Function"
Advance Fog of War: one of our all time most requested features premieres, with subscribers able to use Roll20 Dynamic Lighting in the style of classic real-time strategy games.
New Character Sheets: Dungeon World & GUMSHOE
D&D 5E OGL Sheet Updates
New Compendium Functionality
Coming by end of September 2017!

AD

 

[smiteworks]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to pop in to let everyone know that the prices for D&D content on Fantasy Grounds just dropped by us much as 40% (permanently) for the bigger modules - PHB, MM, DMG, Volos, etc. down to $30 each and the adventures are now $25 for the big ones, $20 for the medium ones and $15 for LMOP. Everything released in print for D&D fifth edition is available already and Tomb of Annihilation will be releasing on Sept 8th for $24.99. If you haven't check out the DMG and Volo's guides yet, be sure to look up the Story Templates. That is one of my favorite features to spit out entire warbands, taverns, random villages and more with a click. You can even build your own using the 100s of tables within the DMG and mix and match with your own creations.