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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6862575" data-attributes="member: 4937">Ok, I'll concede that point.&nbsp; I haven't run this social experiment with 5e before.&nbsp; I said this sort of tolerated cheating and dice rituals were a response to bad rules, and it is possible that 5e has fixed the rules sufficiently that these sorts of responses are no longer required.&nbsp; I'll be interested in hearing how things are going 3-5 years from now.I'm not sure how to evaluate that claim.&nbsp; To me stats make a very obvious huge difference.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't have to call that out, and I'm not sure what I could do to suppress that fact consistently.&nbsp; I certainly don't go around trying to impress on people that their stats are inferior to NPCs or anything, but outcomes are very hard to avoid.&nbsp; The PC with 18 CON has A LOT more hit points than every other character in the group, and it's just obvious from the fact that he survives stuff that would have instantly killed many other party members.&nbsp; It's even more obvious when he survives 50 point hits that would leave most everyone else dead or struggling for life, and the cleric is like, &quot;Hold on, I'm coming!&quot;, and he's like, &quot;No, get someone else this round; I could actually survive another one of those.&quot;&nbsp; Now, I use point buy so there is no basis for jealousy in that, but if this was 3d6 straight up and everyone else lacked that 18, I figure that could be a problem.&nbsp; If you have some guy who honestly rolled up a normal mediocre guy, and you have someone that some how (honest or otherwise) came up with multiple 16+'s, it takes a very particular player to not start feeling he's irrelevant.&nbsp; As long as everyone is getting spot light and a chance to save the day, minor differences in character ability can be generally overlooked.&nbsp; But if they get too great, players often start feeling that they are just there to witness how great Mr. Awesome is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6862575, member: 4937"] Ok, I'll concede that point. I haven't run this social experiment with 5e before. I said this sort of tolerated cheating and dice rituals were a response to bad rules, and it is possible that 5e has fixed the rules sufficiently that these sorts of responses are no longer required. I'll be interested in hearing how things are going 3-5 years from now. I'm not sure how to evaluate that claim. To me stats make a very obvious huge difference. I don't have to call that out, and I'm not sure what I could do to suppress that fact consistently. I certainly don't go around trying to impress on people that their stats are inferior to NPCs or anything, but outcomes are very hard to avoid. The PC with 18 CON has A LOT more hit points than every other character in the group, and it's just obvious from the fact that he survives stuff that would have instantly killed many other party members. It's even more obvious when he survives 50 point hits that would leave most everyone else dead or struggling for life, and the cleric is like, "Hold on, I'm coming!", and he's like, "No, get someone else this round; I could actually survive another one of those." Now, I use point buy so there is no basis for jealousy in that, but if this was 3d6 straight up and everyone else lacked that 18, I figure that could be a problem. If you have some guy who honestly rolled up a normal mediocre guy, and you have someone that some how (honest or otherwise) came up with multiple 16+'s, it takes a very particular player to not start feeling he's irrelevant. As long as everyone is getting spot light and a chance to save the day, minor differences in character ability can be generally overlooked. But if they get too great, players often start feeling that they are just there to witness how great Mr. Awesome is. [/QUOTE]

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