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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6862699" data-attributes="member: 4937">I still don't understand your context.I run a game you might describe as 3e with old school sensibilities.  It's heavily inspired by my background in 1e, and at present very much plays out when in combat as medium sized tactical skirmishes.Current party composition:Sir Gareth Gorinthar: Human 9th level Champion of Aravar  - Pestus, his Hippogriff Steed  - Sir Astin Crevencor, his retainer: Human 5th level Fighter Karl: Sidhe 7th level Rogue/1st level Explorer Grakar: Orine 7th level HunterVarsha: Half-Elf 8th level Shaman - A Grizzly Bear, her pet - A Leopard, her pet - A Jaguar, her petMother Gail Lightbringer: Human 8th level Cleric of Showna - Banner Corporal Admondo Blunt, her henchmen: Human 4th level Fanatic - Templar Spence Carter, her henchmen: Human 3rd level Fanatic - Templar Leverett Dawson, her henchmen: Human 3rd level FanaticMalcolm: Half-Elf 6th level Sorcerer/2nd Level ExplorerThat's 6 PC's, 4 'pets', and 4 henchmen plus the occasionally summoned 'wall of wolves' (ei Summon Nature's Ally II).  Against low AC opponents, they typically do over 100 damage a round. Collectively they have probably 600 or so hit points, though a third of that is the Champion and the pet bear - who tend to act as party 'meat shields'.  They also have 3 spell-casters capable of casting healing spells, although typically the champion has just two cure light wounds at his level.  One hundred points of healing might go out in a single combat.  They might absorb 300 points of damage in a fight - and I've had this whole party in single digits before.  Lately they have been in combat with as many as 50 foes, though 12-20 are more usual, and occasionally you get fights against things like an Undead Warmachine or Tyrannosaurus Rex where it's just one huge opponent.  Still combat is complex and sometimes slow less from the system than the sheer number of participants.  Individuals can become isolated and require rescue.  Tight formations, well planned flanking moves, understanding your role in the combat, and good battlefield control are required for success.  They have to break up large groups of foes into smaller groups, surround them, and avoid being surrounded themselves.  And they have to not get worn down while doing it and risk a death spiral as characters drop and party resources start diminishing.  Bad choices in how to deal with tactical problems can lead to things getting very dicey in a hurry.In 1e terms, and in terms of my campaign, this is a very powerful group.  At mostly 8th level, and beginning to have a lot of stature in the world, they are on the border between 'mid-level' and 'high level'.  I don't understand what you mean about abilities not mattering, or what you mean as "combat as sport".  Sir Gareth Gorinthar owes his stature over the rest of the party by having survived 6 years of gaming, and now countless battles and difficulties - the only original PC still standing.  He's got a 21 AC and like 103 h.p. plus a steed that can soak up quite a bit of damage (he's effectively a Paladin, so the steed is pretty powerful on its own).  He's the party 'tank', and spends most of his time trying to make sure that he's in front of the engagement and the vulnerable spell-casters aren't.  Varsha's deep investment in social skills and spell-casting power might make her the most powerful member of the party, but she has a 12 AC and something like 40 hit points.  If she ever is on the front line, she could be dead in a single round despite all her power.  But if she had Gareth's 18 CON, that would boost her hit points up to 72 by itself.  How can you say ability scores don't matter?  That would like double her survivability on its own, and pretty much lift her out of any realistic threat of being one turned.  On the other hand, Gareth has a 10 DEX, and is frequently handicapped by that.  For example, it means he's never fought well in heavy armor except when mounted, because it's just too big of a armor check penalty to offset in a typical natural environment.  But he also can't benefit as fully from his medium armor as he would like, so his AC isn't nearly as high as he'd like it to be.  Why does he have 10 DEX?  Because as a Champion he has huge MAD, needing Str, Con, Wis, and Chr.  He'd clearly be much more powerful with more DEX and more STR, but then he'd probably outshine the rest of the party.  But on the other hand, if he wasn't as tough as nails, he'd be sort of mediocre, clumsy fighter, largely incapable of laying the beat down some other members of the party (or some now dead past PCs) could do.  And so on and so forth.  Everyone has gaps that higher ability scores would fill, and strengths that wouldn't really shine without good ability scores to support them.  Any one PC off on their own is as dead because anything that is a threat to this 6 PC's will rip apart a single PC, something that they've repeatedly had to learn (and which has nearly got the Champion killed like 4 times in the past year owing to getting a bit of a big head).  Of the 10 PC deaths in six years, 9 have occurred because of a split party, and that's largely been the cause behind the dozens of near death experiences.Is this 'sport-like'? I'm not sure what you mean except that at a meta-level it's a game.</blockquote>

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