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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 6864175" data-attributes="member: 6801845">[EDIT: clarified my post.&nbsp; Sorry it's so long!]I did a quick comparison (my game got canceled) with my example characters.&nbsp; Not a complete comparison because I ignored feats and stat bumps from leveling up.I used numbers from a program I wrote to roll random characters, this is an example of 2 characters from the same 6 person &quot;group&quot;.11, 17, 16, 17, 18, 1814, 9, 5, 8, 7, 11So if I build two characters at the halfway-ish level of their career (level 10)As 10th level wood elf archerSuper Dave:Str&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; Dex&nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; Con&nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; Int&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; Wis&nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; Cha&nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; Athletics +3 (untrained)Intimidation +7Stealth +9Survival +8Attack: +11 Dmg: 1d8+5 (avg 9.5).&nbsp; Avg dmg/hit: 7.6Hit Points: 95AC (before armor): 15Wimpy Kid:Str&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; Dex&nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; Con&nbsp;&nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; Int&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; Wis&nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; Cha&nbsp;&nbsp; 5Athletics -2 (untrained)Intimidation -1Stealth +5Survival +2Attack: +7 Dmg: 1d8+3 (avg dmg 7.5).&nbsp; Avg dmg/hit: 4.9Hit Points: 55AC (before armor): 13So in combat, Super Dave is going to last twice as long as Wimpy Kid between having 15% better armor and 73% better HP.&nbsp; Super Dave is also going to average around 60% more damage.Out of combat? I'm not even going to bother with percentages.&nbsp; Suffice to say Super Dave is good at his proficient skills and pretty good at everything he's not proficient in. Wimpy?&nbsp; Not even particularly good in his proficient skills.One is a hero, the other is&nbsp; ... not.&nbsp; Could you roleplay Wimpy Dave and have fun?&nbsp; I'll leave that up to you.&nbsp; But if I were playing a game where I was playing Wimpy, I would feel like the sidekick.&nbsp; And not the cool-snappy-comeback sidekick.&nbsp; The &quot;do I have to take him with me mom?&quot; sidekick.In addition, Wimpy is just not going to have that many viable options.&nbsp; He's adequate at one thing - shooting arrows - but can't take a hit and is pretty useless outside of combat to boot.&nbsp; If I had envisioned playing a stealthy woodland scout/spy sneaking up on the bad guys and intimidating them to get them to talk I'm SOL.Super Dave could also be a paragon of excellence in just about any class.&nbsp; I would even go so far as to state that his stats are too good for my tastes.So go ahead, flame me with how you would just love to play Wimpy and how you would bask in the glory of that one time you rolled a 20 and Super Dave rolled a 1.&nbsp; I think the majority (probably the vast majority) of people would disagree.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 6864175, member: 6801845"] [EDIT: clarified my post. Sorry it's so long!] I did a quick comparison (my game got canceled) with my example characters. Not a complete comparison because I ignored feats and stat bumps from leveling up. I used numbers from a program I wrote to roll random characters, this is an example of 2 characters from the same 6 person "group". 11, 17, 16, 17, 18, 18 14, 9, 5, 8, 7, 11 So if I build two characters at the halfway-ish level of their career (level 10) As 10th level wood elf archer Super Dave: Str 17 Dex 20 Con 18 Int 11 Wis 18 Cha 16 Athletics +3 (untrained) Intimidation +7 Stealth +9 Survival +8 Attack: +11 Dmg: 1d8+5 (avg 9.5). Avg dmg/hit: 7.6 Hit Points: 95 AC (before armor): 15 Wimpy Kid: Str 7 Dex 16 Con 11 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 5 Athletics -2 (untrained) Intimidation -1 Stealth +5 Survival +2 Attack: +7 Dmg: 1d8+3 (avg dmg 7.5). Avg dmg/hit: 4.9 Hit Points: 55 AC (before armor): 13 So in combat, Super Dave is going to last twice as long as Wimpy Kid between having 15% better armor and 73% better HP. Super Dave is also going to average around 60% more damage. Out of combat? I'm not even going to bother with percentages. Suffice to say Super Dave is good at his proficient skills and pretty good at everything he's not proficient in. Wimpy? Not even particularly good in his proficient skills. One is a hero, the other is ... not. Could you roleplay Wimpy Dave and have fun? I'll leave that up to you. But if I were playing a game where I was playing Wimpy, I would feel like the sidekick. And not the cool-snappy-comeback sidekick. The "do I have to take him with me mom?" sidekick. In addition, Wimpy is just not going to have that many viable options. He's adequate at one thing - shooting arrows - but can't take a hit and is pretty useless outside of combat to boot. If I had envisioned playing a stealthy woodland scout/spy sneaking up on the bad guys and intimidating them to get them to talk I'm SOL. Super Dave could also be a paragon of excellence in just about any class. I would even go so far as to state that his stats are [I]too[/I] good for my tastes. So go ahead, flame me with how you would just [I]love[/I] to play Wimpy and how you would bask in the glory of that one time you rolled a 20 and Super Dave rolled a 1. I think the majority (probably the vast majority) of people would disagree. [/QUOTE]

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