Rolling for a paladin

[Quasqueton]

For building a paladin, are these rolls decent/workable: 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8? Would you allow a reroll? I've got a couple players who are saying that a paladin needs higher scores to be playable.

Quasqueton

 

[redknight]

Those scores are definately workable. Actually they are better than average. I usually only allow a reroll if a character does not have a stat of 14 or higher or the total modifiers are zero or less. This character definately qulaifies. The only times when this is not the case is if they are entering acampaign where all the other characters have high stats. Or they are playing a high level spellcaster and need the stat in order to cast the high level spells.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Those scores are the equivalent of a 28 point buy, which is considered above average per the core rules (= 25 point buy).

If it were my paladin I would array them:
Str 14, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16
(or swap Con & Wis)

I'd be happy to play such a character.

 

[Wombat]

Perfectly viable.

Yes the paladin has the problem in that it is a class that feels like it needs high stats in everything, but this ain't necessarily so.

The point-buy spread shows that not only a viable character is created, but a solid one, one with large amounts of potential.

 

[takyris]

Definitely playable, and, as people noted, better than the default spread.

I'd go:

Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 16

Basically swapping Int and Dex from Joshua Randall's post. I've been annoyed with low-Dex paladins getting hit all the time, even in heavy armor, but a low-Int paladin is just fun waiting to happen.

Putting the 16 in Cha isn't even entirely necessary. You could go:

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14

Now your paladin is a slightly better melee combatant (higher AC, one ore hit point per level) at the cost of not getting spells for another few levels (those levels where you get 0 spells, meaning that you can only cast with bonus levels). Your character could still use wands, however, and you'd still get a +2 on all your saves from Divine Grace.

Not saying any way is better -- and in fact, I probably wouldn't play the way I'd just described -- but if you want a combat-focused paladin and you're not really going to use your spells much as it is, then a 10 Wis isn't gonna hurt you that much...

 

[Lamoni]

I believe that I would allow a re-roll. I agree that you can play with the following stats, but you would be lacking things for a Paladin. The suggested stats were...

Str 14, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16

The problem with this is that the AC would be very low... something that you can't afford in a character that is always going to be in the front line.

Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 16

I believe that this is probably the best build given the stats... but a Dex 12 is very nice to have for the AC, and with Int 8, you would get just one skill point per level... pretty hard to develop more than just one stat so you would have to pick between ride, diplomacy, and whatever else would be nice like sense motive and move silently. Wisdom and Cha are fine... but I like to move Cha up to 18 or higher for the Paladin and a Str 14 will hurt more later on.

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14

This build might work, but if you plan on giving up spells, healing, and saving throws, why play a Paladin at all? It would be better to go with a fighter. (I realize that you would still have a +2 for some healing and better saving throws, but Cha also affects diplomacy, and turning undead)

So, in conclusion... I would say that the rolls allow for a playable Paladin. But the Paladin will have to choose between being a sub-par fighter, having no skills, being a poor spellcaster, turning not being an option and having less than optimal saving throws with little healing power. Paladins definately aren't overpowered even with awesome stats. I would give them better stats so that it is more fun to play.

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Definitely playable.

Incidently, what are the scores of the other players in the group (or their Point-Buy equivalents)?

TS

 

[Quasqueton]

I was not totally upfront with all the information leading to this thread. I have ruled on 28 points for all characters in this campaign. At least two of the players have balked at such a "low" point buy number. One said specifically that a paladin is impossible with such low points. The other commented on how he thought adventurers were supposed to be of heroic stature.

I started this thread to get opinions on whether a 28-point paladin was viable. I beleive it is (in a normal-power-level campaign).

But I didn't want this thread to be just another point-buy comparison thread. I know some use 25 points, some use 32+ points. Thanks for your opinions on this subject. I see that most agree 28 points is enough to make decent characters.

Of course many players want more points (power gamers), but they can't honestly argue that 28 isn't enough to make a decent character.

Quasqueton

 

[apocalypstick]

Pshaw. My Paladin had worse stats than that, and he played just fine.

Of course, he did die this weekend, but that's because I thought I could take on 4 wererats by myself... knew I should have ran when half the party failed their saves vs. Hold Person.

 

[Urbannen]

Quasqueton, I just posted to your other thread in which you complain about your players wanting to have access to all the PrCs, monster races, and templates.

You have a problem: You are not a power gamer. Your players are power gamers.

I suggest that you compromise, a little at least (I have to admit though that I'm not a power gamer and I love to see power gamers squirm).

Yes, frankly, 28 is "low-ish" for a paladin, ranger, or monk character.

My suggestion: give them a choice between 32 point buy and rolling for stats.

32-point buy is not that much more than 28, but it does give more comfort room to the power gamer. If they have the choice of rolling then they can't complain. If they roll make them do it in front of you, and they can only do it once unless they get an "unplayable" character as defined by the PHB. If they get a character that is higher than 32 points (very probable), they hit the jackpot. If not, too bad - it was their choice to roll.

[pedantic educator voice]Remember, modern discipline is all about choices, not ultimatums.[/pedantic educator voice]

This might lead to less sulkiness on their part.