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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6126135" data-attributes="member: 14506">Right so STR is an important stat for wizards so they can get the attack bonus to hit with their touch attack. And then further, you think that the attack once hit should allow no save against the magic. Did I frame your thoughts on this properly?As to the concept of who rolls the dice I think, that could simply be a matter of DMs/Players choice. If you want to roll to roll for your fireball or roll for your charm person the math can easily account for something like that. It should be a choice that the group makes. That said though, it needs to be a save (again I don't care who rolls the dice). Saves resist effects, spells do effects. I dont want a wizard to cast a ray spell and then roll a DEX based ranged attack to determine if his effect worked. Then the target if hit gets no save. I would rather see, the ray get cast, the ray hits automatically, then the target determines if the magic affected him or not with a save. This works like this with all spells other than touch spells and ray like spells. Can you imagine if charm person was a ray? DEX check to hit, no save once hit. that is just silly. The important thing for magic, is if the effect happens and not if you hit or miss. Leave hitting to the weapons, leave the saves to the spells. Luckily in the playtest they seem to agree with that notion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6126135, member: 14506"] Right so STR is an important stat for wizards so they can get the attack bonus to hit with their touch attack. And then further, you think that the attack once hit should allow no save against the magic. Did I frame your thoughts on this properly? As to the concept of who rolls the dice I think, that could simply be a matter of DMs/Players choice. If you want to roll to roll for your fireball or roll for your charm person the math can easily account for something like that. It should be a choice that the group makes. That said though, it needs to be a save (again I don't care who rolls the dice). Saves resist effects, spells do effects. I dont want a wizard to cast a ray spell and then roll a DEX based ranged attack to determine if his effect worked. Then the target if hit gets no save. I would rather see, the ray get cast, the ray hits automatically, then the target determines if the magic affected him or not with a save. This works like this with all spells other than touch spells and ray like spells. Can you imagine if charm person was a ray? DEX check to hit, no save once hit. that is just silly. The important thing for magic, is if the effect happens and not if you hit or miss. Leave hitting to the weapons, leave the saves to the spells. Luckily in the playtest they seem to agree with that notion. [/QUOTE]

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