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<blockquote data-quote="Wulfgar76" data-source="post: 6126498" data-attributes="member: 61867">No I still like the Spellcasting ability modifier for the to-hit roll for Rays and Touch spells, even if DEX is more realistic. Certainly not STR.And yes, if the attack roll hits, it means the target took the brunt of the magic, and there is no save under most circumstances. An exception would be a 'Death Touch' spell that slays the target outright, the attack roll would probably deal damage, then trigger a saving throw to determine if the target is slain.&nbsp;Agree, except for rays, touch spells and cantips. Fireball and Charm person should remain passive attacks where the defender saves to dodge or resist it.&nbsp;&nbsp;This is where we disagree.&nbsp;It does, and should remain that way.&nbsp;Agreed, Charm Person is silly as an attack roll. Pit Traps 'attacking' a character's Reflex Defense is even worse.&nbsp;Disagree. 3rd Edition had Touch and Ranged Touch attacks for spells. 4th Edition was all attack rolls for spells. A few spells in DDN still use an attack roll. Making all spells passive saves would be a big step backward in my opinion.Rolling a dice to hit with a spell is a robustly fun mechanic that players like and also makes a lot of simulationist sense for certain types of spells. I definitely hope to see spell attack rolls (for the spells that should have one) return in the next playtest.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wulfgar76, post: 6126498, member: 61867"] No I still like the Spellcasting ability modifier for the to-hit roll for Rays and Touch spells, even if DEX is more realistic. Certainly not STR. And yes, if the attack roll hits, it means the target took the brunt of the magic, and there is no save under most circumstances. An exception would be a 'Death Touch' spell that slays the target outright, the attack roll would probably deal damage, then trigger a saving throw to determine if the target is slain. Agree, except for rays, touch spells and cantips. Fireball and Charm person should remain passive attacks where the defender saves to dodge or resist it. This is where we disagree. It does, and should remain that way. Agreed, Charm Person is silly as an attack roll. Pit Traps 'attacking' a character's Reflex Defense is even worse. Disagree. 3rd Edition had Touch and Ranged Touch attacks for spells. 4th Edition was all attack rolls for spells. A few spells in DDN still use an attack roll. Making all spells passive saves would be a big step backward in my opinion. Rolling a dice to hit with a spell is a robustly fun mechanic that players like and also makes a lot of simulationist sense for certain types of spells. I definitely hope to see spell attack rolls (for the spells that should have one) return in the next playtest. [/QUOTE]

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