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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6129726" data-attributes="member: 14506">Hahaha, your are arguing for a mathematical construct that only becomes accurate with lots of rolls. I suppose we are going to have to disagree. If you roll it once, one face including 10 or 11 will come up 5% of the time which is equal to all of the other faces. Contests are only made in small amounts and for the average roll to come through you have to roll lots of times. DM says roll opposed diplomacy, player picks up die and tosses it once and determines outcome based on what the DM rolled. They do not roll 20+ times to be able to achieve an average.You know when people say statistics are all crap and they can be manipulated to say anything. I really feel like that is what you are doing. I don't know if you are willfully trying ignore the point or are just not getting it. I dont know. So you think contested rolls have the same randomness, you also think that +1 modifier is having the same effect on a roll when you have 20 possible results on a d20 as 39 possible results on a d20-d20. This is really the crux of it right here. Think of it this way, I will use an extreme example so that you see the disparity. If you roll a d10 and add 1 that plays more influence on the result that if you rolled 1d100 and added 1 to it. In 3e due to grappling being opposed rolls, you saw huge grapple modifiers just so large monsters would not accidentally get grappled by smaller ones. This was done to combat the swingyness of the mechanic (39 vs. 20). We have seen in the past optional opposed roll rules where attacks and saves could be done with opposed rolls. These were never popular because there was no baseline of defense.So two concepts, contests are not many rolls to resolve the task and 39 possibilities vs. 20.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6129726, member: 14506"] Hahaha, your are arguing for a mathematical construct that only becomes accurate with lots of rolls. I suppose we are going to have to disagree. If you roll it once, one face including 10 or 11 will come up 5% of the time which is equal to all of the other faces. Contests are only made in small amounts and for the average roll to come through you have to roll lots of times. DM says roll opposed diplomacy, player picks up die and tosses it once and determines outcome based on what the DM rolled. They do not roll 20+ times to be able to achieve an average. You know when people say statistics are all crap and they can be manipulated to say anything. I really feel like that is what you are doing. I don't know if you are willfully trying ignore the point or are just not getting it. I dont know. So you think contested rolls have the same randomness, you also think that +1 modifier is having the same effect on a roll when you have 20 possible results on a d20 as 39 possible results on a d20-d20. This is really the crux of it right here. Think of it this way, I will use an extreme example so that you see the disparity. If you roll a d10 and add 1 that plays more influence on the result that if you rolled 1d100 and added 1 to it. In 3e due to grappling being opposed rolls, you saw huge grapple modifiers just so large monsters would not accidentally get grappled by smaller ones. This was done to combat the swingyness of the mechanic (39 vs. 20). We have seen in the past optional opposed roll rules where attacks and saves could be done with opposed rolls. These were never popular because there was no baseline of defense. So two concepts, contests are not many rolls to resolve the task and 39 possibilities vs. 20. [/QUOTE]

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