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<blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9242321" data-attributes="member: 7037866">As a DM, I've never had much issue with deciding a DC for what PCs might or might not notice.However, that isn't what passive perception is for, the way we use it. &quot;Looking&quot; to notice something is ALWAYS an &quot;active&quot; roll. The players have to tell me, &quot;My character is looking for any signs of x, y, or z.&quot; Otherwise, I simply describe the general area (using clues in a fashion you do).Passive perception is simply the DM saying, &quot;I don't want the players to know by telling them to roll&quot; or &quot;I know the PCs are actively looking for x, y, or z; so I'll go with the roll of 10 plus bonuses for each PC.&quot;The idea of using Passive Perception for a &quot;floor&quot; isn't what it really is (or should be IMO) used for. The concept of &quot;passive&quot; (as in not &quot;active&quot;) would not imply &quot;average&quot; effort, but rather a &quot;minimal&quot; effort. For that sort of Passive Perception, we would use a base of either 5 or 7ish, instead of a 10. We call this &quot;Awareness&quot; and not Passive Perception.All that being said, I understand you issue with having set DCs and Passive Scores. Used in such a way, the same PCs tend to discover things before the PCs will lower scores, who miss more. Another option if this is annoying for you would be to make &quot;searching&quot; or &quot;noticing things&quot; a group check instead of using Passive Perception.As far as feeling you are meta-gaming your adventure design, all I can say to that is &quot;don't&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging&nbsp; &nbsp; :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />&nbsp; The adventure is planned according to the world design, not the PCs. If a secret door is very well-hidden, set it to DC 20, for example. Then, passive 18's won't spot it unless the character searches for it and gets to actually roll. Then with their +8 bonus, they will have to roll a 12 or better. Another PC might be able to help, granting the first PC advantage, etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ezo, post: 9242321, member: 7037866"] As a DM, I've never had much issue with deciding a DC for what PCs might or might not notice. However, that isn't what passive perception is for, the way we use it. "Looking" to notice something is [I]ALWAYS[/I] an "active" roll. The players have to tell me, "My character is looking for any signs of x, y, or z." Otherwise, I simply describe the general area (using clues in a fashion you do). Passive perception is simply the DM saying, "I don't want the players to know by telling them to roll" or "I know the PCs are [I]actively[/I] looking for x, y, or z; so I'll go with the roll of 10 plus bonuses for each PC." The idea of using Passive Perception for a "floor" isn't what it really is (or should be IMO) used for. The concept of "passive" (as in not "active") would not imply "average" effort, but rather a "minimal" effort. For that sort of Passive Perception, we would use a base of either 5 or 7ish, instead of a 10. We call this "Awareness" and not Passive Perception. All that being said, I understand you issue with having set DCs and Passive Scores. Used in such a way, the same PCs tend to discover things before the PCs will lower scores, who miss more. Another option if this is annoying for you would be to make "searching" or "noticing things" a group check instead of using Passive Perception. As far as feeling you are meta-gaming your adventure design, all I can say to that is "don't". 🤷‍♂️ The adventure is planned according to the [I]world design[/I], not the PCs. If a secret door is very well-hidden, set it to DC 20, for example. Then, passive 18's won't spot it [I]unless[/I] the character searches for it and gets to actually roll. Then with their +8 bonus, they will have to roll a 12 or better. Another PC might be able to help, granting the first PC advantage, etc. [/QUOTE]

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