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Message: <blockquote data-quote="arscott" data-source="post: 2230419" data-attributes="member: 17969">Let me see if I understand you correctly.  Your saying that Power attack is (1) too good for rogues who use two-handed weapons, and (2) a bad choice for rogues because they're not as durable in melee and don't always have the STR to use it?Ridiculous.Let's take a 6th level rogue, with 16 dex, 14 str, and a +1 falchion.His attack bonus is going to be +6, his damage is 2d4+3/18-20, and his sneak attack damage is 3d6.  He's taken Power Attack (and martial weapon proficiency so he can use the falchion).Let's take another 6th level rogue with the same stats, but who has a +1 rapier, weapon finesse, and weapon focus instead.His attack bonus is going to be +8, his damage is 1d6/19-20, and his sneak attack damage is 3d6.Lets see how they stack up against an ac 15 opponent:Rogue 1, with full power attack:1-12 (60%) is a miss, 13-17 (25%) is a hit, and 18-20 (15%) is a critical threat, which confirms on 13 or better(so 6% confirmed, 9% regular damage) .  That's 60% 0 damage, 34% 2d4+13+3d6 (average 28.5), and 6% 4d4+26+3d6 (average 46.5).  that comes to 12.48 average damage per round.with only half power attack, that changes to:1-10 miss, 13-17 hit , and 18-20 crit threat , which confirms on 11 or better.  50% 0, 42.5% 2d4+9+3d6 (24.5), and 7.5% 4d4+18+3d6 (38.5).  that comes to 13.3 average damage per round.and with no power attack, that's:1-8 miss, 9-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 9 or better.  40% 0, 51% 2d4+5+3d6 (20.5), 9% 4d4+10+3d6 (30.5) comes to 13.2 per round.well, given those numbers, it looks like power attack one might be higher.  let me try that:1-9 miss, 10-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 10 or better.  45%0, 46.75% 2d4+6+3d6 (22.5), 8.25% 4d6+12+3d6 (34.5) comes to 13.365 per round.Rogue 2 gets:1-6 miss, 7-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 7 or better.  30% 0, 59.5% 1d8+3+3d6 (18), 10.5% 2d8+6+3d6 (25.5) comes to 13.3875 per round.Hmm.  Doesn't look very broken to me.  But perhaps I was unfair in using an AC as high as 15.  After all, while that's slightly below average for a CR 6 encounter, the target of the sneak attack will have lost its dex bonus or taken a penalty for being flanked.  Plus, the party might be up against several lower CR foes.  Let's try 10:Rogue 1--Full Power Attack:1-7 miss, 8-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 8 or better.  35% 0, 55.25% 28.5, 9.75% 46.5 for 20.28 per roundRogue 1--Half Power Attack:1-5 miss, 6-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 6 or better.  25% 0, 63.75% 24.5, 11.25% 38.5 for 19.95 per roundRogue 1--No Power Attack:1-3 miss, 4-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 4 or better.  15% 0, 72.25% 20.5, 12.75% 30.5 for 18.7Rogue 1--Power Attack 5:1-6 miss, 7-17 hit, 12-20 crit on 7 or better.  30% 0, 59.5% 26.5, 10.5% 42.5 for 20.23Rogue 2:1 miss, 2-17 hit, 18-20 crit on 2.  5% 0, 80.75% 18, 14.25% 25.5 for 18.16875I don't see much broken here.  AC 10 is the equivalent of attacking an unarmed human commoner.  Despite this, a two handed power attack backstab is only going to do an average of 2.11125 points more damage.  Of course, 6th level rogues are just as likely to face opponents with AC 20 as ones with AC 10.  And they'll do a bit worse there.So while there might be a reason to vote against power attack, Brokenness is not one of them.</blockquote>

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