Row, row, row your boat...

[Naathez]

As some of you may have noticed, I've started my new Story Hour, Chronicles of the Orrery. (actually about 40 of you noticed , the viewcount says.)

Anyway, I've stumbled into a small problem.

A very polite comment from one of my players made me think about the speeds of ships as listed in the DMG. (The map they have available displays the principal ship routes and the time needed for the journey.) It was along the lines of "Wow, it sure takes a long time to travel by sea in here... way longer than in the real world. Is it because seas are particularly treacherous or anything like that?"

Now, since I know utterly NOTHING about ships... does anybody know whether those speeds are more or less accurate? They do seem a tad slow, but I really couldn't tell.

(Oh, by the way. Yes, the first sentence IS a shameless plug to my Story Hour, Chronicles of the Orrery, by Naathez. As is this last one... The question is sincere, though.)

 

[Jolly Giant]

Ship speeds... That's a big one. The speeds listed are about right for ships fully loaded with heavy cargo, on a day with moderate wind. Depending on weather and cargo, a ship's speed could be anything from zero mph to three (or even four) times the speeds listed in the DMG.

For most large sailing ships, a wind speed around 15-18 meters per second (gail force) provide optimal sailing speed. Depending on the type of ship, that could mean anything from 2 to 4 times what the DMG suggests.

In stronger wind it is possible to sail even faster, but then you start running the risk of ripping sails or even breaking masts.

This is of course a very brief and simplified version of the truth! To tell the full truth about ships speeds, the DMG would have had to devote at least half a page to each type of ship. I hope this helps you out a little, though. And thank goodness you didn't ask about the number of crewmembers needed to sail the ship properly!

 

[Turanil]

I see two options:

1) You are willing to buy a d20 supplement on boats and sailing (maybe "Corsairs" at rpgnow.com would do the trick), and then you are willing to carefully compute things.

2) Don't bother with it. Tell the players their boat isn't that seaworthy, and the region is not renown for its winds. Then, if the players still whines, tells him that he buys a d20 supplement on boats and sailing (maybe "Corsairs" at rpgnow.com would do the trick), and do the calculations all by himself.

BTW: Was it really "A very polite comment from one of my players" or was it a screaming insult?

 

[Zappo]

Ciao Naathez!

I've met the same issue in one my campaigns. It is a Warcraft game, but it is also pretty heavy on the seafaring (enough that one of the characters has just taken the Dread Pirate PrC).

The speeds are about right, but they assume "average" circumstances. Notice that even though the speed seems slow in terms of miles per hour, with a ship you can travel 24 hours per day. As a result, it is still much faster than walking or riding.

So, while travelling, I use the speeds as written. During combat, however, I allow players to make Profession (Sailor) rolls to resolve maneuvers, catch up with other ships, and similar stuff. For greater detail, though, I think some d20 supplement would be useful.

Suggestion: add a link to your SH to your signature.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I'd just ask the player how fast he thinks the ships should go on average. Establish that the hull of ship they currently have isn't well designed and would go about 75% of average speed. This will give the players incentive to improve the ship and will allow you the opportunity to scale up speedy ships for your bad guys without having to go the "it's magic" route until later in the campaign (always hold back whenever possible).

Ship design is largely a question of hull shape, number of sails, and how the sails are rigged. I'll check out your story hour later today, but hopefully you didn't give too many descriptions of the ship. If you specified a three-mast ship for instance, you've accidentally communicated a great deal of information to someone who knows a thing or two about sailing. There isn't any real way around this other than to sit down with the knowledgeable player and figure out how much he knows.

If there are disagreements about any of the particulars, then I'd check out a d20 PDF or book. I personally use Seas of Blood which I found to answer any questions that came up during the game.

 

[Naathez]

Answers answers and thank you all!

So:

Jolly Giant: thank you really, short, precise and to the point. I'm thinking about settling speeds to be between 1.5 and 2 times those listed... Actually, 4 days from Rome to Sicily DOES seem a little too long to me.

Turanil: I don't think it's necessary to buy a specific supplement... I simply thought speeds might be a little underestimated, and it seems I might not be totally wrong. And actually, it was, as always is with my players, an EXTREMELY polite comment. There was no whining, no complaining, simply a comment. I wouldn't bother to play with people who whine. But thanks for your concern.

Zappo: Ciao to you! The campaign won't necessarily be heavy on seafaring. It's just I tried to be quite precise with travel times (this is not THEIR OWN ship we're talking about, it's, let's say, standard trading and passenger ships they can find in port... there's a culture in the world, the Phoenikan, which are like the Historical Phoenicians, and live by trading. I thought that would kind of create a standard for travelling times.) And I am not sure I know how to add a link to the SH in my sig... I'll try and find a way. Thanks for the tip.

BiggusGeekus: I hope you did get to read the SH. As you probably have seen, there is NO description of the ships, for now anyways - it's not their ship and none of their characters has any special knowledge of ships. As I said before, it's more a matter of consistency to ME than it is to the players. The fact none of the PCs has knowledge of ships though, doesn't mean I don't care about having "accurate" speeds (as in acceptably realistic). After all, none of the PCs has any special knowledge of poisons, but this doesn't mean they can't die from it.

Thank you all! I'm off to try and add a link to my SH in the sig...

 

[drnuncheon]

Your players may be thinking of the classic "tall ships", which are both a little later in the historical period than the ones shown in D&D, and quite a bit faster thanks to better design and a lot more canvas.

Also, the speeds are averages - they include periods of time when there is little or no wind, or when the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, forcing the ship to tack or use oars. If you really wanted to, you could figure prevailing wind direction for the area they are in and give them a small bonus to speed going one way and a penalty for the opposite.

J

 

[Naathez]

Probably THAT would be a little too much. Anyway, I'll probably keep the speeds listed as average, and let there be better ships which are 150% or even 200% as fast. yet, it does take a LONG time to go around... unless I miscalculated, about 3 months to go from Lian to Dresd (meaning from Rome to the north of Poland).

Unless I miscalculated the SCALE of my map....?

-runs away in horror-