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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9000032" data-attributes="member: 6779310">Excepting that none of the followers of the AD&D ranger will be higher than first level; the fellowship in LOTR is not all starting characters. Only the hobbits really seem suitably inexperienced. Also, Sam is Frodo's follower, not Aragorn's. As an emulation of LOTR, the AD&D ranger is a very poor one.Further, most of the AD&D classes attract followers at name level. So also the BX ones. But those only come if the character settles down to a location in most cases. (Some of the "NPC Classes" don't, in both AD&D editions; some of the expansion material in the PC and GAZ series don't, either.)The attracting of followers is part of the subgenre tropes that make AD&D1/AD&D2 & BX/BECMI/Cyclopedia distinct from almost all the fantasy I've read. Le Guin, Howard, Tolkien, Moorcock, St Andre, McCaffrey, Bujold, Thos. Mallory,  Weiss & Hickman. Yeah, even the second best known authorial for D&D related novels doesn't fit the game's tropes, and we KNOW (thanks to the adventures) when the party there hits name level; DragonLance the RPG Setting and DragonLance the novels aren't normally the same subgenre. (DL5A was closer, but that period of the novels is also pretty different from prior in terms of tone and subgenre.) I can't speak to Salvatore, as I've not read his novels.As for Mr Pulsipher's Assertion of Exceptionality...I strongly disagree with his assertion that the protagonists of fiction usually are rolling exceptionally well "in play"; none of the fiction I enjoy is such. But he is right that they are exceptional -- but it's exceptional at creation, not in play. Jeff Swycaffer and Chuck Gannon both have protagonists who are exceptional at the outset mostly in motivation and perhaps a couple points higher than average stats (both of them are writing novels which can very easily be statted out in Traveller terms; both of them also wrote Traveller material; and 2 points on a 2d6 throw is much more significant than on a 3d throw). McCaffrey and Bujold have seriously flawed protagonists, who rise above some initial disadvantage due to some compensatory advantage, and are exceptional for some singular ability and the willingness to use it. The Harper Hall Trilogy, focused upn two main characters, Menolly & Piemur, has both of them being exceptional, but in very different ways, and both screw up bigtime before self redemption; THe Dragonriders Trilogy has Lessa being exceptional in motivation and in telepathy (dragons only), F'Lar and F'nor are exceptional for being Dragon Riders and for believing the long interval is over; Jaxom is exceptional for other reasons, and is the one who coes across as exceptional rolling throughout. Killishandra is likewise exceptional in motivation, and in ego. Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan is exceptional in being a nobleman from a powerful family, but is seriously physically limited due to an attack on his parents while in utero. His real gifts are that he's a very capable con-man, insanely stubborn, and rather smart, plus being a member of the aristroracy; each of his stories however, has him having srious issues to solve that his natural gifts don't. Other protagonists in the series (Cordelia Naismioth-Vorkosigan, Ellie Quin, Ethan of Athos, Simon Illyan, Sgt Taura, Elena Bothari-Jessek) all have good days and bad days. And Bujold's writing mode is built on "How far can I push them before they break?"Herbert is the big exception in the fiction I enjoy; for him, the protagonists are clearly all a cut above, and succeed more often than they should, butthe big plot point is always someone's failed key action. Duke Leto fails to mistrust his doctor; Piter fails to predict the use of the Voice; Piter and the Baron fail to predict the rise of a messianic cult and its sociodynamic effects. (Note: I consider dune to be a space fantasy every bit as much as Star Wars, and not really as Science Fiction; both are written by authors who don't make clear distinctions between the two.) Likewise, once we get to God Emperor, the cover title suggests one protagonist, but the novel itself, and all which follow, are not about God-Emperor Leto.... but reactions to him. GE Leto is so far off the point scales of playable that he is best classed as a force of nature. (and this is foreshadowed in Dune Messiah.)Now, some of the authors Mr. Pulsipher cites are doing characters who are pushing the bounds of Credible; later, non-Howard, Conan is a great example.... but it may be a case of his reading tastes leading to such authorial approach  -- a selection bias -- and a flawed conclusion due to overgeneralization.</blockquote>

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