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RPG Evolution: How a RPG Changed the Star Wars Universe
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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 7706125" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>Animation is not acting and acting is not animation. That's not a knock on either; it's just that they are different things. Acting is very much more than simply a sum of its parts. That's not to say that you can't break down specific expressions, subtle movements, but that's very different from the frame-by-frame stills-with-laugh-tracks you described.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>I won't disagree with that point; simply that I think it cues into differences between your taste and my taste. I didn't get the sense that <em>anybody</em> was wooden in TFA and I can't really fathom how anyone would make that argument; if anything they may be almost too hyper-kinetic or over-expressive, which is a usual issue on Abrams films (that scream from Star Trek Into Darkness, anyone?), but I also overall thought TFA had some excellent shot composition (basically any scene from the trailers, even if the "blank landscape then a character enters frame" ends up a little overused) and I could almost always follow the action, something I thought both TFA and R1 generally did quite well but which a lot of movies tend to be horrible at.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that Poe Dameron is generally regarded as the third member of the trio, though I'll grant he's not as utilized in this film as a "trio" member typically is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm going to have to challenge you to give an example, because with the exception of Finn's "I'm leaving, oh wait no I'm not" I can't think of a time anyone acts illogically (or at least out of character) or acts contrary to their stated motivations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One thing I've noticed is that what you're looking for in a movie is not a thing that I'm looking for at all. You've mentioned (both with re: these movies as well as Braveheart) your bugaboos with inconsistencies or inaccuracies regarding battles, which is not something that ever really bothers me. And it's not even anywhere near as bad as they make it out to be. I don't need to know the exact power level of characters at any given point in a movie, although they do a pretty good job of showing Rey learning as she goes (she does learn at a rather alarming pace, but then Luke's training was fairly rapid itself given the established lore of Jedi training, all things considered). Finn... I don't recall Finn standing up against Kylo Ren very well, and I could be mis-remembering but I'm pretty sure Kylo does try to paralyze Rey again... she resists. And again when she overpowers his Force Pull later. Which is something they had already established she was capable of doing. Hell, he's injured in the final fight and clearly in a great deal of emotional turmoil as well.</p><p></p><p>He's also never shown as having had to actually fight Luke, and if even if he did he clearly had help. There's also loads of references to him not having "completed his training" so I'm not even sure exactly how powerful you expect him to be at this juncture.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The scene that springs to mind is the scene you poo-poo'd earlier; when Finn and Rey first meet. Finn changes from "hey, she needs to help" to "Oh, she can handle herself" to "oh crap, now she's after me" with nothing but his facial expressions and body language, in the span of seconds. The whole business with grabbing hands and who's guarding who; hell, that whole sequence, up to getting out into space in the Falcon and excitedly babble over each other about what they just did, is an amazing sequence of character building. That's the scene that made me fall in love with those two characters.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>The whole sequence where they're yelling at each other after the lab. I don't want to go into detail because I don't want to spoil a movie that is still in theaters, but they somehow go from being super pissed off and not trusting each other to "together we must bring hope to the rebellion so now we must trust each other" is really never earned or explained in any sense other than "we gotta do this thing because no one else will, I guess?". The biggest shift is in Jyn herself, who goes from having her own agenda to being leader of Team Hope without even so much of a "now I'll be the person somebody else wanted me to be". It's lazy characterization and they didn't even pull that off.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, no spoilers, but it's the scene with the hologram. Jyn is definitely supposed to be openly weeping. Her actress is having a hell of time squeezing those tears out.</p><p></p><p>[quoteNow that is a matter of taste. I thought Cassian Andor and his crew of sinners giving a speech about hope was a shining moment of awesome that drew together his character and gave him substance.</p></blockquote><p></p><p>It was a pretty good speech and caps off what his character arc is supposed to be well enough, but there's nothing that gets him from "there" to "here", other than witnessing Jyn's personal tragedies, and he's already gotten in a big fight with her about how we've all suffered loss so I'm not really sure what triggers the sudden change for him.</p><p></p><p>This may very well be a matter of taste again; character is all about how well can understand them. It may very well be you can fill in the gaps yourself and thus buy his arc. But I don't see how the gaps are filled, so I don't buy it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was making an oblique reference to the poor dialogue in the rest of the movie. As a theme, hope is a great one, and one that I think is quite timely, all things considered. I just wish they had been a little more... artful... in how they weaved it in. It doesn't help that the movie takes a huge tonal shift in line with Cassian's character arc.</p><p></p><p>But again, I loved the third act, and had it been preceded by a better first two acts with a more well-rounded and empathizable cast of characters I'd have put it up with the original trilogy. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, and while they spent so much time working on "plot holes" they wasted a perfectly great plot with poor pacing, stilted dialogue, and the holes just migrated from the plot to the character arcs. The third act makes up for a lot, but it can't carry the whole movie.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 7706125, member: 57112"] Animation is not acting and acting is not animation. That's not a knock on either; it's just that they are different things. Acting is very much more than simply a sum of its parts. That's not to say that you can't break down specific expressions, subtle movements, but that's very different from the frame-by-frame stills-with-laugh-tracks you described. I won't disagree with that point; simply that I think it cues into differences between your taste and my taste. I didn't get the sense that [I]anybody[/I] was wooden in TFA and I can't really fathom how anyone would make that argument; if anything they may be almost too hyper-kinetic or over-expressive, which is a usual issue on Abrams films (that scream from Star Trek Into Darkness, anyone?), but I also overall thought TFA had some excellent shot composition (basically any scene from the trailers, even if the "blank landscape then a character enters frame" ends up a little overused) and I could almost always follow the action, something I thought both TFA and R1 generally did quite well but which a lot of movies tend to be horrible at. I think that Poe Dameron is generally regarded as the third member of the trio, though I'll grant he's not as utilized in this film as a "trio" member typically is. I'm going to have to challenge you to give an example, because with the exception of Finn's "I'm leaving, oh wait no I'm not" I can't think of a time anyone acts illogically (or at least out of character) or acts contrary to their stated motivations. One thing I've noticed is that what you're looking for in a movie is not a thing that I'm looking for at all. You've mentioned (both with re: these movies as well as Braveheart) your bugaboos with inconsistencies or inaccuracies regarding battles, which is not something that ever really bothers me. And it's not even anywhere near as bad as they make it out to be. I don't need to know the exact power level of characters at any given point in a movie, although they do a pretty good job of showing Rey learning as she goes (she does learn at a rather alarming pace, but then Luke's training was fairly rapid itself given the established lore of Jedi training, all things considered). Finn... I don't recall Finn standing up against Kylo Ren very well, and I could be mis-remembering but I'm pretty sure Kylo does try to paralyze Rey again... she resists. And again when she overpowers his Force Pull later. Which is something they had already established she was capable of doing. Hell, he's injured in the final fight and clearly in a great deal of emotional turmoil as well. He's also never shown as having had to actually fight Luke, and if even if he did he clearly had help. There's also loads of references to him not having "completed his training" so I'm not even sure exactly how powerful you expect him to be at this juncture. The scene that springs to mind is the scene you poo-poo'd earlier; when Finn and Rey first meet. Finn changes from "hey, she needs to help" to "Oh, she can handle herself" to "oh crap, now she's after me" with nothing but his facial expressions and body language, in the span of seconds. The whole business with grabbing hands and who's guarding who; hell, that whole sequence, up to getting out into space in the Falcon and excitedly babble over each other about what they just did, is an amazing sequence of character building. That's the scene that made me fall in love with those two characters. The whole sequence where they're yelling at each other after the lab. I don't want to go into detail because I don't want to spoil a movie that is still in theaters, but they somehow go from being super pissed off and not trusting each other to "together we must bring hope to the rebellion so now we must trust each other" is really never earned or explained in any sense other than "we gotta do this thing because no one else will, I guess?". The biggest shift is in Jyn herself, who goes from having her own agenda to being leader of Team Hope without even so much of a "now I'll be the person somebody else wanted me to be". It's lazy characterization and they didn't even pull that off. Again, no spoilers, but it's the scene with the hologram. Jyn is definitely supposed to be openly weeping. Her actress is having a hell of time squeezing those tears out. [quoteNow that is a matter of taste. I thought Cassian Andor and his crew of sinners giving a speech about hope was a shining moment of awesome that drew together his character and gave him substance. [/quote] It was a pretty good speech and caps off what his character arc is supposed to be well enough, but there's nothing that gets him from "there" to "here", other than witnessing Jyn's personal tragedies, and he's already gotten in a big fight with her about how we've all suffered loss so I'm not really sure what triggers the sudden change for him. This may very well be a matter of taste again; character is all about how well can understand them. It may very well be you can fill in the gaps yourself and thus buy his arc. But I don't see how the gaps are filled, so I don't buy it. I was making an oblique reference to the poor dialogue in the rest of the movie. As a theme, hope is a great one, and one that I think is quite timely, all things considered. I just wish they had been a little more... artful... in how they weaved it in. It doesn't help that the movie takes a huge tonal shift in line with Cassian's character arc. But again, I loved the third act, and had it been preceded by a better first two acts with a more well-rounded and empathizable cast of characters I'd have put it up with the original trilogy. See, and while they spent so much time working on "plot holes" they wasted a perfectly great plot with poor pacing, stilted dialogue, and the holes just migrated from the plot to the character arcs. The third act makes up for a lot, but it can't carry the whole movie. [/QUOTE]
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