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RPG Evolution: Older Than You Look
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8797579" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>There are a ton of assumptions floating around there that I don't think actually apply to the consensus D&D universe.</p><p></p><p>First, in D&D advanced culture comes about because early in the history of the species one or more gods teach the species how to be an advanced culture (whatever that means because it certainly doesn't mean high tech or industrialized or whatever). In many cases, the species seems to be born with inherent knowledge and ability, such as the elven aptitude for bows that doesn't seem to require any particular culture or training. Culture in D&D tends to be gifted to a species in other words. It's not something that they normally work for or which evolves and progresses over time. Indeed, since the basis of D&D is in Western European myth, then it tends to be grounded in the idea that the most advanced cultures were lost sometime in the past, presumably as violence and tragedy led to the species forgetting the knowledge that they once had. (D&D probably gets this most directly from Tolkien, where it is a big feature of his cosmology.)</p><p></p><p>Secondly, D&D rules are focused on the lives of individuals as heroic adventurers. There is no particular reason why hacking up chimeras, owlbears, and mummies should result in the ability to make great works of art or administer a kingdom. In D&D theory it could, which defies logic especially if the character practices no art while doing his hack and slash and the time frame of the adventuring involves leveling up many levels over the course of a few days. You'd have to really stretch to make that seem plausible. The D&D rules are almost completely silent on how if at all anyone acquires skill if they aren't an adventurer. But it stands to reason that NPCs might acquire skill without levels in any adventuring class that brings them hit points and combat ability, or you could happily suggest as 1e D&D does that they never level up at all. They aren't doing nothing, they just aren't gaining levels as adventurers that give them better saving throws and the ability to kill things. How that works isn't something D&D normally addresses or expects anyone to care about much, because it's external to the game. If D&D players were expected to go about ordinary mundane lives, then there might be rules for what ordinary skill acquisition looked like and gaining levels in classes that don't increase ones hit points or what not, but that's not what D&D players are expected to do during sessions.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, I don't know that we need to care much about the even playing field you mention. Exactly what that playing field looks like is so campaign specific that it's hard to talk about it, and I suspect most tables don't care that much. Again, these are things that tend to be external to the game, and they are mostly interesting to GMs from a world building standpoint when those GMs have a more sandbox sort of reality and are using simulationist concepts to inform them what the unpainted portion of the world probably looks like when a door unexpectedly opens and they have to quickly paint some new scene. This is a common approach, but hardly the only approach even if you are trying to be a neutral referee.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8797579, member: 4937"] There are a ton of assumptions floating around there that I don't think actually apply to the consensus D&D universe. First, in D&D advanced culture comes about because early in the history of the species one or more gods teach the species how to be an advanced culture (whatever that means because it certainly doesn't mean high tech or industrialized or whatever). In many cases, the species seems to be born with inherent knowledge and ability, such as the elven aptitude for bows that doesn't seem to require any particular culture or training. Culture in D&D tends to be gifted to a species in other words. It's not something that they normally work for or which evolves and progresses over time. Indeed, since the basis of D&D is in Western European myth, then it tends to be grounded in the idea that the most advanced cultures were lost sometime in the past, presumably as violence and tragedy led to the species forgetting the knowledge that they once had. (D&D probably gets this most directly from Tolkien, where it is a big feature of his cosmology.) Secondly, D&D rules are focused on the lives of individuals as heroic adventurers. There is no particular reason why hacking up chimeras, owlbears, and mummies should result in the ability to make great works of art or administer a kingdom. In D&D theory it could, which defies logic especially if the character practices no art while doing his hack and slash and the time frame of the adventuring involves leveling up many levels over the course of a few days. You'd have to really stretch to make that seem plausible. The D&D rules are almost completely silent on how if at all anyone acquires skill if they aren't an adventurer. But it stands to reason that NPCs might acquire skill without levels in any adventuring class that brings them hit points and combat ability, or you could happily suggest as 1e D&D does that they never level up at all. They aren't doing nothing, they just aren't gaining levels as adventurers that give them better saving throws and the ability to kill things. How that works isn't something D&D normally addresses or expects anyone to care about much, because it's external to the game. If D&D players were expected to go about ordinary mundane lives, then there might be rules for what ordinary skill acquisition looked like and gaining levels in classes that don't increase ones hit points or what not, but that's not what D&D players are expected to do during sessions. Thirdly, I don't know that we need to care much about the even playing field you mention. Exactly what that playing field looks like is so campaign specific that it's hard to talk about it, and I suspect most tables don't care that much. Again, these are things that tend to be external to the game, and they are mostly interesting to GMs from a world building standpoint when those GMs have a more sandbox sort of reality and are using simulationist concepts to inform them what the unpainted portion of the world probably looks like when a door unexpectedly opens and they have to quickly paint some new scene. This is a common approach, but hardly the only approach even if you are trying to be a neutral referee. [/QUOTE]
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