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RPG Evolution: The Half-Edition Shuffle
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8549552" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>No I think [USER=19857]@Jer[/USER] is right about going from 3 to 6 saving throws. In another thread there was talk about a big fight with a blue dragon & I looked up the stats to make a point. the gargantuan cr23 ancient blue dragon I found first at the time (alphabetical order) has strength 29(+9) dex10(+0)con27(+8) int 18(+4)wis17(+3)cha21(+5) with such a size and that dumpstat dex alongside an int probably higher than any nonwizard/nonartificer in the party or even a couple of them together you'd expect a dex save spell to have better odds? Not quite because it's proficient in dex & con plus half proficient in wis & charisma saves with these saves con+15 wis+10 cha+12 str +9 dex+7 int+4.</p><p></p><p>At the end of the day there's no "hmm I think we should target x save" because it rarely if ever makes any meaningful shift in the odds if the spell change is at all less optimal & shy of looking up statblocks in true metagame style there is no longer any way to make educated guesses</p><p></p><p>By contrast the 3.5 gargantuan cr21 wyrm blue dragon had fort28/reflex20/will25. That might not seem too different but the 5e one has 3x legendary resist a caster can basically do nothing about while the 3.5 one has only SR that only matters against spells affected by SR allowing the caster to invest in spell penetration or choose spells that ignore SR for the fight</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8549552, member: 93670"] No I think [USER=19857]@Jer[/USER] is right about going from 3 to 6 saving throws. In another thread there was talk about a big fight with a blue dragon & I looked up the stats to make a point. the gargantuan cr23 ancient blue dragon I found first at the time (alphabetical order) has strength 29(+9) dex10(+0)con27(+8) int 18(+4)wis17(+3)cha21(+5) with such a size and that dumpstat dex alongside an int probably higher than any nonwizard/nonartificer in the party or even a couple of them together you'd expect a dex save spell to have better odds? Not quite because it's proficient in dex & con plus half proficient in wis & charisma saves with these saves con+15 wis+10 cha+12 str +9 dex+7 int+4. At the end of the day there's no "hmm I think we should target x save" because it rarely if ever makes any meaningful shift in the odds if the spell change is at all less optimal & shy of looking up statblocks in true metagame style there is no longer any way to make educated guesses By contrast the 3.5 gargantuan cr21 wyrm blue dragon had fort28/reflex20/will25. That might not seem too different but the 5e one has 3x legendary resist a caster can basically do nothing about while the 3.5 one has only SR that only matters against spells affected by SR allowing the caster to invest in spell penetration or choose spells that ignore SR for the fight [/QUOTE]
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