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RPG Evolution: The Trouble with Halflings
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8693824" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Really? Because a trained warrior (DnD martial character or soldier) having a few seconds of fear (two to three rounds equals 12 to 18 seconds) but still fires their martial weapon (a bow or a rifle) while fighting for the lives and the lives of their squad, but missing because of the fear (disadvantage).... That really sounds kind of close to exactly the situation at the table. The situation you described as a teenager in a slasher fic running away screaming while throwing anything at hand at the big scary monster and being ineffective. </p><p></p><p>So, I'm sure you can find some difference between them that I'm missing? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, because clearly shopping in the grocery store is the type of thing I'm talking about when discussing combat with your life on the line. Silly me. Sure, maybe a brave person isn't actively being brave when they go shopping, kind of weird to make that sort of distinction though, I mean... you'd imagine they would be brave if the supermarket suddenly broke out into gunfire, so... why make it some sort of bizarre toggle? Oh, right, so that you can defend saying that falling under the frightened condition doesn't make you brave. I guess falling under the sleep condition means you aren't intelligent too, right? </p><p></p><p>Again, the knots you tie yourself into only strengthen my point that this narrative is doing the game a huge disservice.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, it doesn't happen every few feet. I shouldn't have... oh wait, never did claim that. Weird. It is almost like you are strawmanning my actual position. </p><p></p><p>After all, it isn't just the lore in mordenkainen's, it is dungeons and dragons novels and comics and everything else that have constantly told us that halflings have incredible luck, passively, that good things just happen to them without them needing to act. Something which the mechanics do not allow for at all, and something that forcing into the narrative would not help the narrative of the table. In fact, it could legitimately cause problems to do so, if mishandled. </p><p></p><p>Which is why I've been pushing back on it, which, now that you actually understand what I'm talking about, maybe the discussion can move forward without you calling me a Bad Faith DM. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You literally are quoting me back at me, and not understanding the point. </p><p></p><p>If a PC is successful 53% of the time... does anyone notice? Does any go "wow, you are just really lucky!" Not in my experience. But 53% is the high end of their potential successes. </p><p></p><p>What if an average halfling was successful 53% of the time... does anyone notice? Welll... no. They didn't notice it for the random PC, so why would they notice it for the halfling. Sure, the halfling might be 3% more successful than average... but that isn't a meaningful impact, because people are bad at noticing statistics and probabilities over long stretches of the game. </p><p></p><p>You can harp on about how they are objectively better, but if no one notices, then it doesn't affect the table, and it doesn't lead to them being seen as incredibly lucky. Which will then cause the player to potentially be dissatisfied, they took the halfling because the halfling is supposed to be the "lucky" race, but they aren't feeling very lucky. Their character is in fact, seeming to be completely average. So they might go and talk their DM, who may feel like they need to start narrating extra lucky things happening to the player, that never happen to anyone else, to let the halfling feel lucky, like the game says they should. </p><p></p><p>Are we following the line of logic? Because I've only laid this out in every post for the last four days. I know I'm getting frustrated and short with people, but it is taking me multiple days of repeating myself to even get back to where I started, and it is incredibly frustrating.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unless you have 100 halfling players sitting at the table, I think the individual player's experience is going to outweigh whatever the race's bonus is writ large across the community.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8693824, member: 6801228"] Really? Because a trained warrior (DnD martial character or soldier) having a few seconds of fear (two to three rounds equals 12 to 18 seconds) but still fires their martial weapon (a bow or a rifle) while fighting for the lives and the lives of their squad, but missing because of the fear (disadvantage).... That really sounds kind of close to exactly the situation at the table. The situation you described as a teenager in a slasher fic running away screaming while throwing anything at hand at the big scary monster and being ineffective. So, I'm sure you can find some difference between them that I'm missing? Right, because clearly shopping in the grocery store is the type of thing I'm talking about when discussing combat with your life on the line. Silly me. Sure, maybe a brave person isn't actively being brave when they go shopping, kind of weird to make that sort of distinction though, I mean... you'd imagine they would be brave if the supermarket suddenly broke out into gunfire, so... why make it some sort of bizarre toggle? Oh, right, so that you can defend saying that falling under the frightened condition doesn't make you brave. I guess falling under the sleep condition means you aren't intelligent too, right? Again, the knots you tie yourself into only strengthen my point that this narrative is doing the game a huge disservice. Yeah, it doesn't happen every few feet. I shouldn't have... oh wait, never did claim that. Weird. It is almost like you are strawmanning my actual position. After all, it isn't just the lore in mordenkainen's, it is dungeons and dragons novels and comics and everything else that have constantly told us that halflings have incredible luck, passively, that good things just happen to them without them needing to act. Something which the mechanics do not allow for at all, and something that forcing into the narrative would not help the narrative of the table. In fact, it could legitimately cause problems to do so, if mishandled. Which is why I've been pushing back on it, which, now that you actually understand what I'm talking about, maybe the discussion can move forward without you calling me a Bad Faith DM. You literally are quoting me back at me, and not understanding the point. If a PC is successful 53% of the time... does anyone notice? Does any go "wow, you are just really lucky!" Not in my experience. But 53% is the high end of their potential successes. What if an average halfling was successful 53% of the time... does anyone notice? Welll... no. They didn't notice it for the random PC, so why would they notice it for the halfling. Sure, the halfling might be 3% more successful than average... but that isn't a meaningful impact, because people are bad at noticing statistics and probabilities over long stretches of the game. You can harp on about how they are objectively better, but if no one notices, then it doesn't affect the table, and it doesn't lead to them being seen as incredibly lucky. Which will then cause the player to potentially be dissatisfied, they took the halfling because the halfling is supposed to be the "lucky" race, but they aren't feeling very lucky. Their character is in fact, seeming to be completely average. So they might go and talk their DM, who may feel like they need to start narrating extra lucky things happening to the player, that never happen to anyone else, to let the halfling feel lucky, like the game says they should. Are we following the line of logic? Because I've only laid this out in every post for the last four days. I know I'm getting frustrated and short with people, but it is taking me multiple days of repeating myself to even get back to where I started, and it is incredibly frustrating. Unless you have 100 halfling players sitting at the table, I think the individual player's experience is going to outweigh whatever the race's bonus is writ large across the community. [/QUOTE]
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