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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8708320" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Okay, so now we have an entirely new argument. Let's take a llokOkay, so I guess the first question is "Are these different?". Looking at them... yes, looks like they are all at least a little different, some more extreme than others. Second Question, since you had previously stated that this was all "from the PHB" which of these is the halfling from the PHB? Well, from them constantly being described as friendly and all that, it seems obvious that the last one is the PHB halfling. Which is the most morally upstanding of them. After all, they don't derive physical pleasure from it, they don't control people via manipulation, their god's don't punish them for failure to render aid, they are fairly explicitly called out as not getting rewards. So, the most moral version is the PHB version, which supports my point as to what the PHB version is. Okay, but there is a third question. Can I rewrite halflings to have one of these other traits? Maybe I rewrite halflings to have a wide base of these traits? Well.... sort of. I can't write them to gain physical hedonistic pleasure from helping people, because that would be creepy and stalkerish and banned from tables. That's just a bad route. They do it because they don't know any better? That's... bizarre, and breaks down the moment they interact and trade with other races. The Gods? I mean, I could write one god who does that, but it would be really bizarre to have a god that agressive about it instead of just making it a normal ideal. Corellon doesn't punish you for making bad art, they just encourage good art. So, could do it, but it would be really bizarre. Helping just "My" people has some racist overtones to me. Not a fan of it, just like I'm not a fan of the elven arrogance that "their" people are the superior people. Sure, I could write a racist halfling, but I'm looking for their general state, not exceptions. Which just leaves "I help for rewards", "I help because it makes me look good" and "I help to manipulate people" which is all... just taking the baseline of morally superior halflings and making them morally inferior. Again, sure, I can write the exception, I can say that some halflings help others just to make them feel indebted and to manipulate them for their own ends, but if I say all halflings do that... then I've just inverted the problem. Well, okay, since these don't work individually, what if I take all the ones that aren't biological pleasure or the god's decree and combine them? "Some people help others because they think all people deserve help. Some people help others because that is how they were raised. Some people help others for rewards or accolades. Some people help people to manipulate them." Wait... aren't I just... describing all the reasons people help other people? We've circled back around to being just generic. I could maybe say that all halflings help other people, for a variety of reasons good or ill, but all of these are the exact same reasons that every other race would help people. And let's take a moment and think about the halfling that helps people because they want a reward or they think it will make them look good. What if they look at a situation, and they realize they won't get what they want out of it? Helping this person can't get them a reward, which is the reason they would help them so... wouldn't they just not help them? Or what about a halfling who realizes you don't need to help people, and then just... decides to stop helping people. Aren't we then going to have halflings that don't help other people? Making them even more just like everyone else? At the end of the day, you laid out some great reasons a CHARACTER might choose to help someone. But they aren't solid foundations for making an entire race of people help others, because you either end up with disgusting things like them doing it for physical pleasure (again, ew, this would be SO creepy to try and convey), a race deeply rooted in a morality (good or evil) or just... exactly how you treat every other race. So, since we just did this big long thing. Let's take a step back. We are already willing to rewrite halfling biology to make them physically dependent on helping other people. So... what if we rewrote halflings with a focus OTHER than helping people? Could we do something with that instead? Seems like a far less fraught and dangerous path, with far more interesting outcomes.</blockquote>

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