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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8714449" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Yes, the name does matter Max. Because while the &quot;thief&quot; can be a stand-in for many things. It is also, mainly, supposed to be A THIEF. And I love how you keep refering to &quot;bad apple&quot; halflings, like that has any bearing on the point that was made and the objection to it in any way, shape, or form. It doesn't. I also don't get how you think &quot;they'd just pick other subclasses&quot; has any relevance, when, again, the Rogue is the most lawless class in the game. Sure, Indy is a rogue, and he punches Nazi's. And he totally takes those relics he found, alone in the Jungle, to the proper authorities, right? He definetly had government permission to go to ancient sites of cultural importance and wasn't just cutting his way through jungles with little regard to the law, right? There is a reason Rogues were called &quot;Thieves&quot; in the early game. There is a reason that the PHB calls out that most rogues live up to the worst stereotypes of the class. It is because, other than the warlock, the Rogue, as a class, is the most likely to break the law out of every single class in the game. It is a stereotype, just like the Druid being a hippy and the wizard being a nerd. The Rogue is a criminal. Are their non-criminal rogues? Yes, I've acknowledged that REPEATEDLY, but they are not exactly known for being law-abiding citizens with a respect for personal property, now are they? And that is the point that was made. The stereotype vs the expected combo. Uh huh, sure the ring corrupted him within minutes of him getting it. It isn't like he lasted literal decades holding on to it.&nbsp; And obviously when Bilbo was being used as the example in 1e LG Paladins could lie and cheat, because that was perfectly allowed.Then again, I don't really care about Bilbo's alignment.The thief does not have two different thematic biases. That isn't how this works. And I'm foisting nothing off on halflings. Pay attention to the actual arguments please, not your made up ones.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8714449, member: 6801228"] Yes, the name does matter Max. Because while the "thief" can be a stand-in for many things. It is also, mainly, supposed to be A THIEF. And I love how you keep refering to "bad apple" halflings, like that has any bearing on the point that was made and the objection to it in any way, shape, or form. It doesn't. I also don't get how you think "they'd just pick other subclasses" has any relevance, when, again, the Rogue is the most lawless class in the game. Sure, Indy is a rogue, and he punches Nazi's. And he totally takes those relics he found, alone in the Jungle, to the proper authorities, right? He definetly had government permission to go to ancient sites of cultural importance and wasn't just cutting his way through jungles with little regard to the law, right? There is a reason Rogues were called "Thieves" in the early game. There is a reason that the PHB calls out that most rogues live up to the worst stereotypes of the class. It is because, other than the warlock, the Rogue, as a class, is the most likely to break the law out of every single class in the game. It is a stereotype, just like the Druid being a hippy and the wizard being a nerd. The Rogue is a criminal. Are their non-criminal rogues? Yes, I've acknowledged that REPEATEDLY, but they are not exactly known for being law-abiding citizens with a respect for personal property, now are they? And that is the point that was made. The stereotype vs the expected combo. Uh huh, sure the ring corrupted him within minutes of him getting it. It isn't like he lasted literal decades holding on to it. And obviously when Bilbo was being used as the example in 1e LG Paladins could lie and cheat, because that was perfectly allowed. Then again, I don't really care about Bilbo's alignment. The thief does not have two different thematic biases. That isn't how this works. And I'm foisting nothing off on halflings. Pay attention to the actual arguments please, not your made up ones. [/QUOTE]

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