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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8802410" data-attributes="member: 6915329">But the physical attractiveness part of Charisma was gone by 2e--in fact, 2e specifically described it as being about leadership and not about attractiveness (although 3e brought appearance back into it). And even in 1e, it determined your number of henchmen and thus was clearly about leadership--and Comliness further removed appearance from 1e. 3e and on may have made Charisma the go-to skill for innate casters (but even 1e made it important for bards), but it doesn't mean that Charisma is innately magical.And honestly, both gruff and surly can be both magnetic or persuasive. Think of how many TV and movie characters there are who are gruff, surly, and likable despite or even because of their gruff surliness. They don't persuade you with a silver tongue; they persuade you by calling you an idiot until you see their point.And anyway, not having a penalty to Charisma doesn't mean that you can't play a dwarf as gruff or surly. It just means you don't suffer at most a -2 penalty on Charisma rolls simply because you're a dwarf.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8802410, member: 6915329"] But the physical attractiveness part of Charisma was gone by 2e--in fact, 2e specifically described it as being about leadership and not about attractiveness (although 3e brought appearance back into it). And even in 1e, it determined your number of henchmen and thus was clearly about leadership--and Comliness further removed appearance from 1e. 3e and on may have made Charisma the go-to skill for innate casters (but even 1e made it important for bards), but it doesn't mean that Charisma is innately magical. And honestly, both gruff and surly can be both magnetic or persuasive. Think of how many TV and movie characters there are who are gruff, surly, and likable despite or even [I]because [/I]of their gruff surliness. They don't persuade you with a silver tongue; they persuade you by calling you an idiot until you see their point. And anyway, not having a penalty to Charisma doesn't mean that you can't play a dwarf as gruff or surly. It just means you don't suffer [I]at most [/I]a -2 penalty on Charisma rolls simply because you're a dwarf. [/QUOTE]

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