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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8803576" data-attributes="member: 6915329">So all species not only have stereotypes, but nearly all members of those species follow those stereotypes--and even those who subvert have the same penalties as the rest do (which means that, mechanically, they don't subvert the stereotype), and there is no way for species to learn how to communicate with each other fully or to see past those stereotypes. Yeah, no. That sounds terrible. Elves are happy-go-lucky? How does that mesh with the stereotype of elves as haughty and standofffish who look down at the shorter-lived races, all of which are also common elf stereotypes and all of which are far more deserving of a Charisma penalty than gruff and surly. Instead, many of them in 5e get a Charisma bonus--including the murderous drow. And in earlier editions, drow never got a Charisma penalty.So what is it that Charisma is supposed to mean exactly? Are we saying Charisma is primarily appearance, so it doesn't matter that elves are snots and drow are outright evil because they're pretty and both of them are descendants of alien fey, but dwarfs are short and hairy and not too attractive so give them the penalty?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8803576, member: 6915329"] So all species not only have stereotypes, but nearly all members of those species follow those stereotypes--and even those who subvert have the same penalties as the rest do (which means that, mechanically, they don't subvert the stereotype), and there is no way for species to learn how to communicate with each other fully or to see past those stereotypes. Yeah, no. That sounds [I]terrible[/I]. Elves are happy-go-lucky? How does that mesh with the stereotype of elves as haughty and standofffish who look down at the shorter-lived races, all of which are also common elf stereotypes and all of which are far more deserving of a Charisma penalty than gruff and surly. Instead, many of them in 5e get a Charisma bonus--[I]including [/I]the murderous drow. And in earlier editions, drow never got a Charisma penalty. So what is it that Charisma is supposed to mean exactly? Are we saying Charisma is primarily appearance, so it doesn't matter that elves are snots and drow are outright evil because they're pretty and both of them are descendants of alien fey, but dwarfs are short and hairy and not too attractive so give them the penalty? [/QUOTE]

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