RPG jumps into the mainstream... what next?

Krug

Newshound
So RPGs are going to jump into the mainstream with the release of NeverWinterNights. I believe that a lot of computer gamers will have their first real taste of RPGs. How do we, the RPG community, convert these new ones to our dark... I mean, to our particular hobby?

It would be nice for WotC to hand out d20 intros, to make these gamers understand certain points about the games and not to react too harshly when they put comments like WELL I COMPLETED THE DUNGEON OF TINKU-TINKA FOR THE SIXTH TIME DOOODZ! IT RAWKS!!! or HEY WHERE'S THE CHEAT AND WALKTHROUGH FOR THIS MODULE? SO I KNOW I CAN GET MAXIMUM TREASURE! IS THERE A DEFENDER +7 IN IT????

How do we convert this impending horde for the benefit of the whole community? The comics community had a free comic day in order to try to get new readers. (despite being boffo box office fodder Comic Book sales have pretty much stagnated.) Perhaps Wizards.com might want to do the same to attract this new crowd curios about RPGs. It's definitely a step closer to the real thing than MMORPGs.
 
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Krug said:
[BHow do we convert this impending horde for the benefit of the whole community? [/B]

Show them the material. Try to speak in english, not gamer jargon. Hope they like it.

There's not much else you can do.
 

There's some doubt that people that don't play PnP RPGs will play NWN in a small group with a DM. There's a lot of posts at Bioware's MBs of people who don't understand what so special about NWN beyond "a nicer looking BG", and there millions more where that came from. The fact you can play the game 1 player without using the toolset, DM Client or play multiplayer means that a lot of people probably won't even look at that stuff.

NWN might open a few eyes to RPGs, but it won't be significant. This game is more special for those of us in the know.
 
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Krug said:
So RPGs are going to jump into the mainstream with the release of NeverWinterNights.

Well, if I thought NWN was really equivalent to a PnP RPG, then I might agree with you. NWN is not really much closer to tabletop gaming than, say, Diablo II. Sure, NWN has more options, but at it's root it's still a computer RPG, which just isn't the same thing as PnP.
 

Re: Re: RPG jumps into the mainstream... what next?

Umbran said:


Well, if I thought NWN was really equivalent to a PnP RPG, then I might agree with you. NWN is not really much closer to tabletop gaming than, say, Diablo II. Sure, NWN has more options, but at it's root it's still a computer RPG, which just isn't the same thing as PnP.

No it isn't like Diablo II at all. NWN can be played just with a computer solo, but to play it multiplayer most of the time does require a DM. It's really MUCH closer to tabletop gaming than we think. It IS a computer game, but think of it as a far better tool than IRC or the many other web based methods.

I venture that some of the restrictions of NWN (it's good, but not completely unrestricted) might make computer gamers want to try out the PnP/original version.
 

I believe you're basic premise is flawed.

MMORPGs like Everquest have been around for years, most of them steeped in the 'grammar' of RPG's (specifically, D&D, with it's medieval fantasy, HP's and AC, etc).

These games have *dozens* of times the user base that NWN will ever have, yet RPG's are no more in the 'mainstream' than they were in 1979.

I say relax, have fun, and enjoy being one of the cognoscenti.
 

Krug said:
So RPGs are going to jump into the mainstream with the release of NeverWinterNights. I believe that a lot of computer gamers will have their first real taste of RPGs. How do we, the RPG community, convert these new ones to our dark... I mean, to our particular hobby?

.........It will be interesting to watch though. Good RPGamers know (IMO) that one of the secrets behind a good game is about giving to the game as well as receiving. A virtue not commenly found among Computer Gamers.
 

Wormwood said:
I believe you're basic premise is flawed.

MMORPGs like Everquest have been around for years, most of them steeped in the 'grammar' of RPG's (specifically, D&D, with it's medieval fantasy, HP's and AC, etc).

These games have *dozens* of times the user base that NWN will ever have, yet RPG's are no more in the 'mainstream' than they were in 1979.

I say relax, have fun, and enjoy being one of the cognoscenti.

I'm just saying it's a missed opportunity if we don't guide/show people that our version of RPG is better. We bring new gamers, it's good for the game, the publishers, the independent houses.

Everquest isn't much of a 'RPG' from what I've heard; I've never played it myself and have no intention to but it just sounds like an extended MUD. Most of the time, it's just powergaming and Computer RPGs give a very limited view of the game as WE know it. There are substantial change in mindsets and gameplay. In PnP RPGs you don't ever expect to go over the environment again once you've completed it. Monsters don't regenerate, and hundreds of other people don't complete the same quest you did in the same game world. In PnP RPGing, NP Characters are more 'real'. Furthermore, in an MMORPG, once someone breaks the collective myth/idea of the gameworld by going 'HEY DooDZ!! wt lvl u at? got any megaswd to trd?' you're out of it.

All I can say is, if you use NWN, and you're DMing, maybe you might want to bring some 'newbies', a small group of them, around on an adventure. At the end of it, if they've thoroughly enjoyed themselves, give them a short reminder to check out some RPG products. You can't convert anyone, but you can convert some. They buy more d20 products, publishers have more incentive to publish their stuff and the hobby wins out as a whole.

My main concern is, if you're DMing, don't just look out for grizzled, 20 years of experience playing D&D types with the orginal rulebooks before accepting them as players. Take a chance on the freshies!

*end soapbox*
 


I find this thread very interesting. May I introduce my humble opinions (for that is all they are) with a little personal perspective? I first played AD&D in 1978, quickly took up Traveller as well and have been an avid roleplayer and a DM/GM ever since. I've also worked as a games journalist (in the computer and conventional rpg and tabletop arenas), a game designer, writer and editor (again, both in computer and conventional rpg and tabletop fantasy rules publishing) since the early 1980s.

I've played MUDs occasionally and I've just quit playing EverQuest after three years; my main character was a sorcerer (EQ's term for a wizard at the top of the xp tree) and I am extremely interested in what NWN can do. I've been tinkering with the beta toolset and studying the game's hugely powerful scripting language for some time now.

I am very, very excited about NWN. Yes, it is a subset of the 3E rules, with some computer game-centric interpretations of mechanisms but it is still something quite extraordinary, in my view.

I am looking forward to creating and DMing NWN adventures for old friends - grizzled pen and paper types - and newbies and people who have only ever played online computer games like EQ or perhaps stand-alone computer fantasy games.

We are not yet at the stage where a computer game is going to offer the flexibility of a fully fledged pen and paper system but I believe NWN is going to bring us much closer to that ideal than has ever been achieved before, in a way that will be more accessible to people than anything that has been attempted up to this point.

I'm not going to start bashing EQ here, despite having ample ammunition at my disposal but there is simply no comparison between what it is possible to experience within the framework of EQ and what is possible in a well scripted and thoughtfully DMed game of NWN.

It is true that a substantial proportion of people coming to NWN will bring shall I say 'diabolical' tendencies with them. I read the NWN boards almost as frequently as I read these boards and the signs are there. On the principle that ninety-eight per cent of anything is rubbish, I expect a lot of third rate player generated material to follow swiftly after NWN's release but I don't think traditional roleplayers should be snobbish about this (I don't mean to suggest anyone in this thread has been, I'm speaking in general). Munchkinism is not unique to computer gaming; it's more prevalent, sure but then, so are computer games per se. Traditional roleplaying has its munchkins too. I also think that my first efforts to write and run an NWN game are going to leave a fair amount to be desired.

There are also some stimulating debates and threads on all sorts of issues going on in over in NWN land. People have already written sample scripts to show how, on an instantial basis, an NWN adventure can apply rules not directly incorporated into the NWN engine, such as in the case of climbing, for example. Just like here, the NWN community is full of people helping each other out, not only in terms of understanding D&D mechanics and principles but in answering pleas for help with technical and artistic issues. Others are planning on cooperating to provide shared online campaigns.

NWN is not going to change your world, if your dice and books and friends satisfy all your gaming needs but it is going to add qualitative experience to those whose experience of roleplaying has been defined by computer games. And if anyone is wondering if I've been assimilated by the Borg, let me just add that I have been buying more dice lately. My current games shopping list comprises Manual of the Planes, the Psionics Handbook and NWN, in that order. Even when NWN comes out and I start work on my first module, I'm still going to be keeping an eye on new book releases.

I think it is going to be a Good Thing.

Cheers,

Ranes
 

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