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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7334249" data-attributes="member: 16814">Well, color me shocked, then.You mean they saved the life of the person they shot, right?  You don't get a pass on attempted murder because you dug the bullets out and patched him up after you shot him.  I think you might be laboring under the general misunderstanding of what our justice system does:  it does not do justice, or, it only accidentally does justice.  It does very well at punishing people and is exceptional at separating people from money, but justice is something that it manages by accident.  And, believe it or not, this is by design.  Justice is a finicky thing, and hard to do, but punishing people for breaking laws, like shooting other people, is something much easier (not easy, mind, just easier) to do.So, to the cops, who are not there to prove people innocent but instead to find guilty people (this is really something everyone should remember!), you have a person who admits to shooting someone else and then patching them up, and you have the victim who's wounds match this story, but no other evidence: where it happened, what happeneded, etc, from anyone else but the guy that did the shooting and his friends.  Everyone goes to jail, period.And, unless there's an easy and verifiable story, with evidence, that backs up that story, the DA is going to treat this as attempted homicide with recalcitrant witnesses and arraign them as such.As for the Grand Jury, again, you misunderstand what happens there.  The Grand Jury is a tool for Federal and some states (not all use grand juries) to introduce evidence in investigations into the record (ie, preserve evidence for later use) and seek indictments.  There is no duty to provide any evidence that supports a target's account of things -- it's legal and normal for only that evidence that supports the conviction to be presented.  So, in states with grand juries, the cops will arrest and refer what they think their charges are to the DA's office along with evidence -- in this case witness and perp statements that they shot the guy -- and the DA's office will present to the grand jury that they are seeking an indictment against so-and-so for attempted murder.  They have witness and perp statements that the shooting took place, and the prep had a gun consistent with the wounds on the victim.  Since grand juries operate on a standard that is often said to be so low that a DA could indict a ham sandwich, this is more than enough evidence to indict and charge the characters.So, when does the justicy part you think should happen happen?  Well, if it's clear cut what happened, then the DA will likely choose to drop charges after that comes to light.  If the evidence is so muddled that it looks like a conviction is iffy, especially if the characters have competent representation that's already making motions, the DA may drop the charges.  Remember, DA's don't get promoted because they let attempted murders walk, they get promoted for convicting people of attempted murder.  If you didn't catch it, I didn't say people guilty of attempted murder.  Again, courts don't really do justice except by accident.  It's accidentally something like justice often enough that it works, but it's still accidental.So, okay, this sounds like I'm down on cops and DAs.  I'm not down on cops.  I have a number of good personal friends that are cops and I've done a lot of work in the LE field supporting cops.  It it, however, pragmatic to understand that cops are not employed to prove people innocent, they're employed to catch and help convict bad guys.  If you're talking to cops in their official capacity, they are not looking for innocent people, they are looking for bad guys.  They may think the bad guy is you.  There's countless stories of perfectly innocent and legal actions that look illegal and criminal.  So, whenever you're talking to cops in their official capacity, always treat the conversation as if you are being investigated for a crime.  Be polite.  Refuse permission to be searched.  If you're being questioned, ask if you're being detained, if not, leave.  If yes, you're only response should be "I want a lawyer."  These aren't because cops are bad guys, they certainly aren't, but they are not working to make sure you're a good guy.  They deal with bad guys, and if you've come to their attention, they'll assume you're a bad guy and act accordingly.DAs, on the other hand... look, most people joining the DA's office are young and motivated.  And they enter a world where their worth is pretty much based on convictions -- do they get them.  And, to do this, they are handed an immense amount of power with very, very few repercussions for misuse of that power.  Not to say that possible repercussions don't exist, just that they are so rarely applied that they might as well not exist.  So you have young people given a huge amount of power without safeguards and they're told to convict people to get ahead.  This recipe generally means that DAs are dangerous and somewhat amoral in action.  A DA can ruin your life for no reason and never face any repercussions for it.  Not to say they all do, but that's the reality.  Now, most of the time the cops pull in genuine bad guys, and DAs use this power to put genuine bad guys in prison, but its the exceptions that stick out.Again, the legal system isn't fun.  It's a good threat, though, but I'd suggest using it to drive the players to seek help they don't want to seek rather than just throwing them in jail.  Jail is the realistic outcome, but it's not a fun one.</blockquote>

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