Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
RPG setting: a variant on "maps with blanks"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8375545" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Indeed, BW has means to prevent players from preset arcs... but high failure rates isn't one of them. </p><p>The default difficulty is 2 successes; the typical competent starting skill is level 3, and rolls 3d6, each die of 4+ being a success. Primary skill will be 4, or rarely, 5. </p><p>the possible combinations: FFF, FFS, FSF, SFF, FSS, SFS, SSF, SSS. that's 4 of 8, 50%.</p><p>The next labeled difficulty is 3 successes needed. 12.5% for competent, but for the primary skills at 4, that's 4/16, or 25%.And that 4d on the Ob2 default difficulty? 11/16 success. or 68%...</p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">doing the math; may as well leave it here FFFF FFFS FFSF FSFF SFFF FFSS FSFS FSSF SFFS SFSF SSFF FSSS SFSS SSFS SSSF SSSS</span></p><p>And that's before adding a die from a "Field of Related Knowledge" (aka FoRK) at 2-7, or 2d from FoRK at 8+. I've almost never seen a player not have relevant FoRKs for their areas of competence.</p><p></p><p>For comparison, the typical D&D 5E starting competent skill (or weapon proficiency) is +2 att and +2 proficiency, for +4 and the typical roll is for 15+, or, 50%. In focus area, that's +3 att, instead, for 55%. The next labeled difficulty is 20+... for 25% to 30%...</p><p></p><p>Burning Wheel's defense against planning is far more subtle...</p><p>1) Beliefs change. Being forced to change them is a potential failure outcome. </p><p>2) Attempting things hard enough that you cannot succeed is needed for advancement</p><p>3) Goals are encapsulated within beliefs, and thus can be forced to change.</p><p>4) what you raise is entirely based upon what you've used and how hard it was for your character.</p><p>4.1) skills under 4 require tests that are high failure rate without artha, and tests that are low failure rate.</p><p>4.2) skills going over four start requiring tests that cannot be passed without artha (needs more successes than you have dice from skill, help, FoRKs, and tools), and skil tests with high failure rates.</p><p>4.3) dice added by Artha don't count.</p><p>5) Artha (the three metacurrencies) are earned by use of your Beliefs, Instincts, and Traits. </p><p>5.1) some earns require changing the related Belief or Instinct.</p><p></p><p>The easiest way to foil a plan to become the Maestro de Fence is to simply not offer up occasions to fence competent opponents... because without competent opponents, you're not going to get those "can't pass" rolls very often. And if you don't want to lose on those? You have to spend Artha, and Artha isn't cheap. Every one earned has a price in terms of in-fiction actions to earn them: either a trait used limit your options, an instinct used by the GM to start you in a bit of a fix, a belief challenged and either you embraced the belief and took the costs of that, or gave in, played against it, and now have to alter it...</p><p>Also, if one spends enough Artha on a skill over time, there's an interesting side effect... at a certain number of each type spent, the skill "shifts shades"... it goes from being "Black" 4+ on d6 to being "Grey" 3+ on d6. Do it again, and it shifts to "White" 2+... the rules don't provide a further shifts. I've seen that happen once. I've seen several PCs start with a grey (S on 3+) skill.</p><p>BW characters can wind up with the concept being turned on end by things the other players have brought forth...</p><p></p><p>Mouse Guard, while simpler, has many of the same elements... </p><p></p><p>Oh, and the D***-move version of blocking the goal of becoming a maestro de fence? Sure, you find competent opponents... who opt not to roll all their dice. They go easy on you. You learn almost nothing.</p><p>On the other hand, the player can always use a circles roll to find a suitable opponent, then use a social skill to goad them into attacking in earnest... but that has <em>other disadvantages</em>... like wounds and death.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8375545, member: 6779310"] Indeed, BW has means to prevent players from preset arcs... but high failure rates isn't one of them. The default difficulty is 2 successes; the typical competent starting skill is level 3, and rolls 3d6, each die of 4+ being a success. Primary skill will be 4, or rarely, 5. the possible combinations: FFF, FFS, FSF, SFF, FSS, SFS, SSF, SSS. that's 4 of 8, 50%. The next labeled difficulty is 3 successes needed. 12.5% for competent, but for the primary skills at 4, that's 4/16, or 25%.And that 4d on the Ob2 default difficulty? 11/16 success. or 68%... [SIZE=1]doing the math; may as well leave it here FFFF FFFS FFSF FSFF SFFF FFSS FSFS FSSF SFFS SFSF SSFF FSSS SFSS SSFS SSSF SSSS[/SIZE] And that's before adding a die from a "Field of Related Knowledge" (aka FoRK) at 2-7, or 2d from FoRK at 8+. I've almost never seen a player not have relevant FoRKs for their areas of competence. For comparison, the typical D&D 5E starting competent skill (or weapon proficiency) is +2 att and +2 proficiency, for +4 and the typical roll is for 15+, or, 50%. In focus area, that's +3 att, instead, for 55%. The next labeled difficulty is 20+... for 25% to 30%... Burning Wheel's defense against planning is far more subtle... 1) Beliefs change. Being forced to change them is a potential failure outcome. 2) Attempting things hard enough that you cannot succeed is needed for advancement 3) Goals are encapsulated within beliefs, and thus can be forced to change. 4) what you raise is entirely based upon what you've used and how hard it was for your character. 4.1) skills under 4 require tests that are high failure rate without artha, and tests that are low failure rate. 4.2) skills going over four start requiring tests that cannot be passed without artha (needs more successes than you have dice from skill, help, FoRKs, and tools), and skil tests with high failure rates. 4.3) dice added by Artha don't count. 5) Artha (the three metacurrencies) are earned by use of your Beliefs, Instincts, and Traits. 5.1) some earns require changing the related Belief or Instinct. The easiest way to foil a plan to become the Maestro de Fence is to simply not offer up occasions to fence competent opponents... because without competent opponents, you're not going to get those "can't pass" rolls very often. And if you don't want to lose on those? You have to spend Artha, and Artha isn't cheap. Every one earned has a price in terms of in-fiction actions to earn them: either a trait used limit your options, an instinct used by the GM to start you in a bit of a fix, a belief challenged and either you embraced the belief and took the costs of that, or gave in, played against it, and now have to alter it... Also, if one spends enough Artha on a skill over time, there's an interesting side effect... at a certain number of each type spent, the skill "shifts shades"... it goes from being "Black" 4+ on d6 to being "Grey" 3+ on d6. Do it again, and it shifts to "White" 2+... the rules don't provide a further shifts. I've seen that happen once. I've seen several PCs start with a grey (S on 3+) skill. BW characters can wind up with the concept being turned on end by things the other players have brought forth... Mouse Guard, while simpler, has many of the same elements... Oh, and the D***-move version of blocking the goal of becoming a maestro de fence? Sure, you find competent opponents... who opt not to roll all their dice. They go easy on you. You learn almost nothing. On the other hand, the player can always use a circles roll to find a suitable opponent, then use a social skill to goad them into attacking in earnest... but that has [I]other disadvantages[/I]... like wounds and death. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
RPG setting: a variant on "maps with blanks"
Top