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<blockquote data-quote="Grendel_Khan" data-source="post: 8445356" data-attributes="member: 7028554">This makes some sense to me in the abstract, though if you get into the particulars, an Apocalyse World game and related design and theory discussions, for example, might be so far removed from how D&amp;D is played and designed that it's likely a waste of time to bother referencing D&amp;D. If a bunch of indie filmmakers were sitting around analyzing the MCU's ratio of trailer-friendly comedic-one-liners to genuine story or action beats, I'd think they're just sorting out the best way to get pulled into the MCU stable, not trying to improve or inform their own work.Where I agree, though is in the way that the bleeding edge is often informed by criticisms of popular work. The French New Wave defined itself, in some respects, as being nothing like what those filmmakers saw as the stunted, polished &quot;cinema of quality&quot; at the time.But what happens when people criticize or even reference D&amp;D in anything other than a positive light? Claims of elitism, pretentiousness, and blame for creating a divisive environment.So, it's a Catch-22. Don't leave D&amp;D out of the conversation, since that's dismissing its player base. But also, keep D&amp;D out of your mouth unless it's to heap praise upon it.Meanwhile, as [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] referenced re: the avant-garde, but I think holds true in a lot of discourse that happens in the shadow of a single, dominating IP, the people interested in pushing a given medium often hold what they create and consume to the same high standards as they do that looming thing. That stans of the monolith, whether that's the MCU or D&amp;D or whatever else, see almost any whiff of criticism or preference for something else as a slight will always confuse me. You're waaaay up there. We're no threat down here. We can't win. The war never existed, or was over before it started. We're just trying to have some fun trying something else, in many cases while still playing D&amp;D every so often.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Grendel_Khan, post: 8445356, member: 7028554"] This makes some sense to me in the abstract, though if you get into the particulars, an Apocalyse World game and related design and theory discussions, for example, might be so far removed from how D&D is played and designed that it's likely a waste of time to bother referencing D&D. If a bunch of indie filmmakers were sitting around analyzing the MCU's ratio of trailer-friendly comedic-one-liners to genuine story or action beats, I'd think they're just sorting out the best way to get pulled into the MCU stable, not trying to improve or inform their own work. Where I agree, though is in the way that the bleeding edge is often informed by criticisms of popular work. The French New Wave defined itself, in some respects, as being nothing like what those filmmakers saw as the stunted, polished "cinema of quality" at the time. But what happens when people criticize or even reference D&D in anything other than a positive light? Claims of elitism, pretentiousness, and blame for creating a divisive environment. So, it's a Catch-22. Don't leave D&D out of the conversation, since that's dismissing its player base. But also, keep D&D out of your mouth unless it's to heap praise upon it. Meanwhile, as [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] referenced re: the avant-garde, but I think holds true in a lot of discourse that happens in the shadow of a single, dominating IP, the people interested in pushing a given medium often hold what they create and consume to the same high standards as they do that looming thing. That stans of the monolith, whether that's the MCU or D&D or whatever else, see almost any whiff of criticism or preference for something else as a slight will always confuse me. You're waaaay up there. We're no threat down here. We can't win. The war never existed, or was over before it started. We're just trying to have some fun trying something else, in many cases while still playing D&D every so often. [/QUOTE]

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