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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8447995" data-attributes="member: 7023840">That could be. Or ... and this is just a possibility, other people just have different preferences than you do.I keep seeing this disconnect- it's great that you've "fought against the edges of the game{.}" It's awesome that you enjoy games were people are pursuing their own individual agendas.But it's quite likely that your preferences are not the same as other people's. That those things that you don't enjoy, are exactly what other people enjoy. That a game that is designed for your preferences would not be in alignment with the preferences of others.Moreover, and this keeps getting re-stated and ignored, D&D is not just a single thing. Which is why it is eternally frustrating when someone says, "Well, this rule is in 5e. JUSTIFY IT!"  (I guess it's better than being lectured to be people who don't play it at all ....)D&D (and 5e) is the sum total of not just the rules, but the playing community and the norms. The expectations. The tensions between RAW and freeform groups. The expectations of those who want giant set-piece battles ever session with minis, and those who prefer a flowing game with very occasional ToTM combat.And that's why this never gets anywhere (putting aside, for the second, that this thread was never about 5e). When there are those who discuss the flexibility or "big tent" nature of 5e, they aren't discussing a diversity of outcome, necessarily- D&D is very good at D&D- which is to say, a kind of fantasy that never existed with its own norms that can incorporate anything into it from spaceships to anime-inspirations, because it never bothered to be something more specific. On the other hand, it does allow for a multiplicity of process in order to be D&D; you can have a group get together at lunch and play some diceless 'D&D' or have someone play it as nearly a wargame or have another group incorporate 4e elements and skill challenges into 5e (there are plenty of places to find how to do that if you don't want to do it on your own).That diversity of process is something that is definitely unusual in most games, which lack the history, community, and norms of D&D- most games expect that you will be playing the game as it is designed. But it's not like this hasn't been said before! Again, D&D (and 5e) isn't perfect, and it's certainly not great for everyone. But that's hardly a novel observation. If it's not a game that works for your preferred playing style, or with your group, don't play it.</blockquote>

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