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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9274546" data-attributes="member: 82106">I know what you mean, but of course the problem was (and I am a past master at this, playing loads of AD&D spell casters) it became magic user player gaming against the GM. Gary's response was to make rulings and write them up in each more 'improved' iteration of the rules (the 1e DMG for instance has a very large section where he retroactively adds a lot of rules to the PHB spells, including rules for how they work underwater, on other planes, etc.). This, of course, lead to bloated text and still can only cover a few common situations. My approach in 4e, and I don't know to what degree this was the intent of the designers, was to incorporate the SC system and Page 42, as well as leaning a bit on the ritual rules. So, for example, the Stinking Cloud spell is a level 5 Daily with a Sustain duration and a Zone AoE. So, it will bypass obstacles and affect things that are not in LOE of the caster. A player wanted to exterminate Jermlaine (tiny little goblinoid monstrosities that originate in a 1e module) which were infesting the air ducts of an ancient dwarven fortress they were exploring. So I told her she could turn her Stinking Cloud into a ritual that would generate a whole bunch of poison gas that could be directed to fill the ductwork. This required passing an SC that included acquiring the correct materials, magical research, setting up the ritual site, avoiding Jermlaine interference, etc. Then the ritual had to be performed, after which the problem was solved (they succeeded as it happens). I think [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] has some play examples that worked in analogous ways, and similar stuff came up fairly often in our play too. Like closing a gate that a Balor (WAY above party level) was trying to force open, that sort of stuff. I think the characters in that case hacked a Circle of Protection ritual to seal the thing, IIRC. while the fighter hacked on it with a demon-slaying axe his father made for him.</blockquote>

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