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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9209291" data-attributes="member: 42582">Vincent Baker's point is that mechanics do not author fiction on their own. Everyone has to agree to imagine what it is that the mechanics &quot;tell&quot; them they should imagine.(The above statement is sometimes called the &quot;Lumpley principle&quot; - after Vincent Baker's user name - or the &quot;Care Boss principle&quot; - after Emily Care Boss.)Likewise for authorities, in voluntary leisure activities.I'm not sure whether or not you clicked on the link, but here is the example that I elided:So you're sitting at the table and one player says, &quot;[let's imagine that] an orc jumps out of the underbrush!&quot;

What has to happen before the group agrees that, indeed, an orc jumps out of the underbrush?

1. Sometimes, not much at all. The right participant said it, at an appropriate moment, and everybody else just incorporates it smoothly into their imaginary picture of the situation. &quot;An orc! Yikes! Battlestations!&quot; This is how it usually is for participants with high ownership of whatever they're talking about: GMs describing the weather or the noncombat actions of NPCs, players saying what their characters are wearing or thinking.

2. Sometimes, a little bit more. &quot;Really? An orc?&quot; &quot;Yeppers.&quot; &quot;Huh, an orc. Well, okay.&quot; Sometimes the suggesting participant has to defend the suggestion: &quot;Really, an orc this far into Elfland?&quot; &quot;Yeah, cuz this thing about her tribe...&quot; &quot;Okay, I guess that makes sense.&quot;

3. Sometimes, mechanics. &quot;An orc? Only if you make your having-an-orc-show-up roll. Throw down!&quot; &quot;Rawk! 57!&quot; &quot;Dude, orc it is!&quot; The thing to notice here is that the mechanics serve the exact same purpose as the explanation about this thing about her tribe in point 2, which is to establish your credibility wrt the orc in question.

4. And sometimes, lots of mechanics and negotiation. Debate the likelihood of a lone orc in the underbrush way out here, make a having-an-orc-show-up roll, a having-an-orc-hide-in-the-underbrush roll, a having-the-orc-jump-out roll, argue about the modifiers for each of the rolls, get into a philosophical thing about the rules' modeling of orc-jump-out likelihood... all to establish one little thing. Wave a stick in a game store and every game you knock of the shelves will have a combat system that works like this.(That last sentence is hyperbole, although in 2003 - when this was written - it wasn't too much of an exaggeration.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9209291, member: 42582"] Vincent Baker's point is that mechanics do not author fiction on their own. Everyone has to agree to imagine what it is that the mechanics "tell" them they should imagine. (The above statement is sometimes called the "Lumpley principle" - after Vincent Baker's user name - or the "Care Boss principle" - after Emily Care Boss.) Likewise for authorities, in voluntary leisure activities. I'm not sure whether or not you clicked on the link, but here is the example that I elided: [indent]So you're sitting at the table and one player says, "[let's imagine that] an orc jumps out of the underbrush!" What has to happen before the group agrees that, indeed, an orc jumps out of the underbrush? 1. Sometimes, not much at all. The right participant said it, at an appropriate moment, and everybody else just incorporates it smoothly into their imaginary picture of the situation. "An orc! Yikes! Battlestations!" This is how it usually is for participants with high ownership of whatever they're talking about: GMs describing the weather or the noncombat actions of NPCs, players saying what their characters are wearing or thinking. 2. Sometimes, a little bit more. "Really? An orc?" "Yeppers." "Huh, an orc. Well, okay." Sometimes the suggesting participant has to defend the suggestion: "Really, an orc this far into Elfland?" "Yeah, cuz this thing about her tribe..." "Okay, I guess that makes sense." 3. Sometimes, mechanics. "An orc? Only if you make your having-an-orc-show-up roll. Throw down!" "Rawk! 57!" "Dude, orc it is!" The thing to notice here is that the mechanics [I]serve the exact same purpose[/I] as the explanation about this thing about her tribe in point 2, which is to establish your credibility wrt the orc in question. 4. And sometimes, lots of mechanics and negotiation. Debate the likelihood of a lone orc in the underbrush way out here, make a having-an-orc-show-up roll, a having-an-orc-hide-in-the-underbrush roll, a having-the-orc-jump-out roll, argue about the modifiers for each of the rolls, get into a philosophical thing about the rules' modeling of orc-jump-out likelihood... all to establish one little thing. Wave a stick in a game store and every game you knock of the shelves will have a combat system that works like this.[/indent] (That last sentence is hyperbole, although in 2003 - when this was written - it wasn't too much of an exaggeration.) [/QUOTE]

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