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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9209538" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Since you're countering the point of &quot;rules primary purpose is to aid in negotiation (which is about generating a particular sort of moment-to-moment gameplay content),&quot; I have to assume you're referring to &quot;physical&quot; (imaginary physical) models used for extrapolation of the workings of a particular setting? Otherwise, I can't figure what work &quot;to provide models&quot; is doing here as a counterpoint?&nbsp; If I'm correct in my guess at your meaning....well, this is only true for a very specific subset of TTRPGs.&nbsp; Other games have rules that:* Generate downward pressure upon play so player decision-space is more compelling in a particular way.&nbsp; Wandering Monsters in D&amp;D are an example.&nbsp; The Grind and accruing/spending Checks in Torchbearer and the Camp procedures are another.&nbsp; There are plenty more.* Provoke premise-based or theme-based action with an alignment of procedures, ethos, and incentive structures.&nbsp; Again, tons here from Milestones in D&amp;D 4e to general situation-framing procedures, levers, and best practices in scene-based games (or action-snowballing-based games that are more freeform) of which there are too many to name.These rules (first order and their integrated, cascading effects) aren't designed to provide a model to either extrapolate around/from or to operationalize a setting.&nbsp; The primary purposes of these game rules (and, typically, the macro ruleset you'll find them embedded within) are to generate content or to aid in the negotiation of content generation.&nbsp; They're about generating particular gameplay and the moment-by-moment experience of the participants who are undergoing that particular gameplay.Any modeling is either (a) incidental or even (b) entirely unintended such that it might yield dysfunctional play that is co-opting the point of play and subbing in something else.&nbsp; I mean...we have a rich and varied history of this, but we don't have to even go outside of Gygax's lament in his DMG!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9209538, member: 6696971"] Since you're countering the point of "rules primary purpose is to aid in negotiation (which is about generating a particular sort of moment-to-moment gameplay content)," I have to assume you're referring to "physical" ([I]imaginary [/I]physical) models used for extrapolation of the workings of a particular setting? Otherwise, I can't figure what work "to provide models" is doing here as a counterpoint? If I'm correct in my guess at your meaning....well, this is only true for a very specific subset of TTRPGs. Other games have rules that: * Generate downward pressure upon play so player decision-space is more compelling in a particular way. Wandering Monsters in D&D are an example. The Grind and accruing/spending Checks in Torchbearer and the Camp procedures are another. There are plenty more. * Provoke premise-based or theme-based action with an alignment of procedures, ethos, and incentive structures. Again, tons here from Milestones in D&D 4e to general situation-framing procedures, levers, and best practices in scene-based games (or action-snowballing-based games that are more freeform) of which there are too many to name. These rules (first order and their integrated, cascading effects) aren't designed to provide a model to either extrapolate around/from or to operationalize a setting. The primary purposes of these game rules (and, typically, the macro ruleset you'll find them embedded within) are to generate content or to aid in the negotiation of content generation. They're about generating particular gameplay and the moment-by-moment experience of the participants who are undergoing that particular gameplay. Any modeling is either (a) incidental or even (b) entirely unintended such that it might yield dysfunctional play that is co-opting the point of play and subbing in something else. I mean...we have a rich and varied history of this, but we don't have to even go outside of Gygax's lament in his DMG! [/QUOTE]

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