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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9220304" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I don't think the distinction between task resolution and conflict resolution really matters when it comes to the process of how we determine the outcome. There is still a need to determine the outcome, either favorable to the player or unfavorable, or perhaps some mix of the two. We have at least two possible end states, and we need to determine which one becomes true. Whether it is to open the lock or to find the evidence needed to prove the duke is a traitor doesn't change that. I don't know what &quot;agreement outside the rules means&quot;. Yes, no one said that every single moment is a negotiation. Baker claims that the rules' primary purpose is to facilitate the negotiation. To ease or constrain it. Principles and agenda help guide the participants in how to take part in the game. They certainly help facilitate negotiation. For instance, in Blades in the Dark, the player is free to select which Action they'd like to use to try and overcome an obstacle. The GM does not dictate which Action they choose, they choose it. However, the principle &quot;Don't be a weasel&quot; is in place to tell players that they should choose the Action most relevant to the move being made. It guides them in the back and forth of play. I think there's the idea that there must be conflict between the parties in a negotiation, and I don't think that's true. Perhaps that's what's influencing this resistance to the idea. Very often during a negotiation both parties may be totally on board with a decision to be made. These are the moments Baker describes as &quot;easing&quot; the negotiation. There are very clear rules involved, and no back and forth is needed... whatever it is the participant has declared simply happens, and everyone accepts it. These moments of fiat that you site. The idea that negotiation only happens when play has failed in some way is really extreme, I'd say. I don't expect many games would be considered successful by that metric.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 9220304, member: 6785785"] I don't think the distinction between task resolution and conflict resolution really matters when it comes to the process of how we determine the outcome. There is still a need to determine the outcome, either favorable to the player or unfavorable, or perhaps some mix of the two. We have at least two possible end states, and we need to determine which one becomes true. Whether it is to open the lock or to find the evidence needed to prove the duke is a traitor doesn't change that. I don't know what "agreement outside the rules means". Yes, no one said that every single moment is a negotiation. Baker claims that the rules' primary purpose is to facilitate the negotiation. To ease or constrain it. Principles and agenda help guide the participants in how to take part in the game. They certainly help facilitate negotiation. For instance, in Blades in the Dark, the player is free to select which Action they'd like to use to try and overcome an obstacle. The GM does not dictate which Action they choose, they choose it. However, the principle "Don't be a weasel" is in place to tell players that they should choose the Action most relevant to the move being made. It guides them in the back and forth of play. I think there's the idea that there must be conflict between the parties in a negotiation, and I don't think that's true. Perhaps that's what's influencing this resistance to the idea. Very often during a negotiation both parties may be totally on board with a decision to be made. These are the moments Baker describes as "easing" the negotiation. There are very clear rules involved, and no back and forth is needed... whatever it is the participant has declared simply happens, and everyone accepts it. These moments of fiat that you site. The idea that negotiation only happens when play has failed in some way is really extreme, I'd say. I don't expect many games would be considered successful by that metric. [/QUOTE]

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