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RPGing and imagination: a fundamental point
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9227707" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>5e SRD rules on ability checks -</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)">An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The GM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.</span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>For every ability check, the GM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty Classes table shows the most common DCs.</em></span></p><p></p><h4><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Typical Difficulty Classes</em></span></h4> <table style='width: 100%'><tr><th><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Task Difficulty</em></span></th><th><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>DC</em></span></th></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Very easy</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>5</em></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Easy</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>10</em></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Medium</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>15</em></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Hard</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>20</em></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Very hard</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>25</em></span></td></tr><tr><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>Nearly impossible</em></span></td><td><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em>30</em></span></td></tr></table><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)">To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success--the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the GM.</span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p>We are immediately told what an ability check is for - to test the character's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. We are also given our first system constraint - 'GM calls for ability check when the outcome of an action is uncertain'.</p><p></p><p>We are then given another system constraint - GM decides which of the 6 ability scores is relevant. It doesn't tell us how to determine this, so the first thought might be - GM FIAT, but the obvious implicit answer is that he's to do so by the fictional positioning, coupled with the meaning of each ability score.</p><p></p><p>Next we come to to the DC. While the SRD doesn't give explicit guidance on what 'task' (it's word) should be easy, medium, hard, etc. One might say GM FIAT to set the DC here as well, but the implicit expectation of the rule is that these should be based on fictional positioning. Different DM's might end up setting a specific DC for a specific task differently, but after doing so other similar tasks that are more or less difficult are then expected to have higher/lowers DC's compared to the first task. So while no explicit guidance is given, there are system constraint around setting DC's.</p><p></p><p>We then are then given the actual ability check mechanic - roll a d20, add the relevant ability modifier, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare to the DC. Another constraint on the DM!</p><p></p><p>We are then given a constraint around what to do when success - the creature overcomes the challenge at hand!</p><p></p><p>We are then given a constraint around failure - either no progress toward the objective or progress combined with a setback determined by the DM. (I'd actually argue they left out a 3rd and more common option, failure to progress toward the objective with a setback - say time cost being a common one). But more importantly in the last bit it says the GM determines the setback! Yes! And no restriction is given on what the setback may be! Yes! The system technically allows here any setback, but in D&D it's the social contract and norms that further restrict the DM here. There's no actual option for rocks fall, you die - despite the system technically allowing that, because the social contract and Norms disallow that. Since ultimately the GM cannot say, rocks fall, you die, - it's not clear to me how this could be GM FIAT.</p><p></p><p>So, going just by the rules for ability checks, where is this system unconstrainted GM fiat in ability checks?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9227707, member: 6795602"] 5e SRD rules on ability checks - [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The GM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]For every ability check, the GM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class. The more difficult a task, the higher its DC. The Typical Difficulty Classes table shows the most common DCs.[/I][/COLOR] [HEADING=3][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Typical Difficulty Classes[/I][/COLOR][/HEADING] [TABLE] [TR] [TH][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Task Difficulty[/I][/COLOR][/TH] [TH][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]DC[/I][/COLOR][/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Very easy[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]5[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Easy[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]10[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Medium[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]15[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Hard[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]20[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Very hard[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]25[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]Nearly impossible[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [TD][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I]30[/I][/COLOR][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success--the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the GM.[/COLOR][/I] We are immediately told what an ability check is for - to test the character's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. We are also given our first system constraint - 'GM calls for ability check when the outcome of an action is uncertain'. We are then given another system constraint - GM decides which of the 6 ability scores is relevant. It doesn't tell us how to determine this, so the first thought might be - GM FIAT, but the obvious implicit answer is that he's to do so by the fictional positioning, coupled with the meaning of each ability score. Next we come to to the DC. While the SRD doesn't give explicit guidance on what 'task' (it's word) should be easy, medium, hard, etc. One might say GM FIAT to set the DC here as well, but the implicit expectation of the rule is that these should be based on fictional positioning. Different DM's might end up setting a specific DC for a specific task differently, but after doing so other similar tasks that are more or less difficult are then expected to have higher/lowers DC's compared to the first task. So while no explicit guidance is given, there are system constraint around setting DC's. We then are then given the actual ability check mechanic - roll a d20, add the relevant ability modifier, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare to the DC. Another constraint on the DM! We are then given a constraint around what to do when success - the creature overcomes the challenge at hand! We are then given a constraint around failure - either no progress toward the objective or progress combined with a setback determined by the DM. (I'd actually argue they left out a 3rd and more common option, failure to progress toward the objective with a setback - say time cost being a common one). But more importantly in the last bit it says the GM determines the setback! Yes! And no restriction is given on what the setback may be! Yes! The system technically allows here any setback, but in D&D it's the social contract and norms that further restrict the DM here. There's no actual option for rocks fall, you die - despite the system technically allowing that, because the social contract and Norms disallow that. Since ultimately the GM cannot say, rocks fall, you die, - it's not clear to me how this could be GM FIAT. So, going just by the rules for ability checks, where is this system unconstrainted GM fiat in ability checks? [/QUOTE]
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