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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9231444" data-attributes="member: 71699">Gettier, essentially. The presumed JtB that the dirt is in the safe turns out not to be robust.While offering helpful insights, it struck me that this skirts presenting a &quot;No-true-Scotsman&quot; form of argument. Proper play dissolves concerns. I know that's not the intent, and perhaps the guidance as to how to achieve &quot;proper play&quot; is what does the most work. It's striking though, and I feel like one needs to be mindful of it.I don't recall anyone being &quot;floored by the possibility&quot; or fearing some &quot;RPG God&quot; curtailing them. Folk hit problems relating to a tension between a narrativist approach and norms of game play itself. Such as around helping oneself to outcome. In a great many games that folk have learned to play from, they've learned that it's not the outcome, but how you get to it that counts. As Knizia put it &quot;When playing a game the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning.&quot; So folk are used to focusing on the &quot;how&quot; (reminding of someone's comment elsewhere &quot;play to find out how&quot;).Baker is great at reminding that in a very real sense it's about what the people around the table are in fact doing. In that light, character sheets are player sheets, and resolution is rolling dice. There's no &quot;proof&quot; that a given fiction adheres to a roll; it's down to what folk will accept. DitV exemplifies that.Rolling to see if I get the outcome I want requires adapting to norms and adopting practices that - hopefully - uphold gamefulness in the liminal space TTRPG occupies. Between storytelling and game playing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9231444, member: 71699"] Gettier, essentially. The presumed JtB that the dirt is in the safe turns out not to be robust. While offering helpful insights, it struck me that this skirts presenting a "No-true-Scotsman" form of argument. Proper play dissolves concerns. I know that's not the intent, and perhaps the guidance as to how to achieve "proper play" is what does the most work. It's striking though, and I feel like one needs to be mindful of it. I don't recall anyone being "floored by the possibility" or fearing some "RPG God" curtailing them. Folk hit problems relating to a tension between a narrativist approach and norms of game play itself. Such as around helping oneself to outcome. In a great many games that folk have learned to play from, they've learned that it's not the outcome, but how you get to it that counts. As Knizia put it "When playing a game the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." So folk are used to focusing on the "how" (reminding of someone's comment elsewhere "play to find out [I]how[/I]"). Baker is great at reminding that in a very real sense it's about what the people around the table are in fact doing. In that light, character sheets are player sheets, and resolution is rolling dice. There's no "proof" that a given fiction adheres to a roll; it's down to what folk will accept. DitV exemplifies that. Rolling to see if I get the outcome I want requires adapting to norms and adopting practices that - hopefully - uphold gamefulness in the liminal space TTRPG occupies. Between storytelling and game playing. [/QUOTE]

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