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RPGs that you feel trip over their own cool ideas
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<blockquote data-quote="Tigris" data-source="post: 9867991" data-attributes="member: 7043270"><p>Its a tactical combat rpg with some pbta inspired mechanics for the non combat part, as in its simple "roll dice + attribute + maybe skill bonus vs DC" but the outcome is not just bonary but has also "yes and", "yes but" and "no and worse".</p><p></p><p></p><p>But many tactical rpgs do this (Beacon, Lancer, Icon etc.) I would not say it makes the narrative. Its not like 13th age which really wants to be more narrative and focused on theater of mind, its just a "we want to do it slightly different than D&D"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then about the main subcject:</p><p></p><p>For me its <strong>Pathfinder 2</strong> They had 2 "clever ideas" to have the "<strong>3 action system</strong>" and to have the "<strong>universal +-10 crit rule</strong>", which both sound elegant, but because of them the rest of the game cannot be elegant at all, just in order to make these 2 things work, and it causes soo many problems.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Forces you to add huge modifiers to roll together in all cases even when in other games it would not be necassarily since it is clearly a hit/miss (to check if its +-10)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Extreme level scaling, doubling in power all 2 levels, severly limiting the range of enemies you can use.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Needing to teduce "normal" amount of monsters by half (compared to D&D 4e from which they have the encounter building), since having 3 actions per enemy can slow down things with too many enemies.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Making effects look really weak because they are often the weakest possible bonus (+1) feeling unrewarding</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Also having some classes be really bland because they get just a small numerical modifier which is so stronge that it takes up a huge power budget.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make spells feal weak because they fail more than 50% (to balance the small chance for the really strong crit)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Several attacks in the same turn having different modifiers which adds unecessary complexity</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Having really weak 3rd actions which often dont matter</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Making movement often unwanted because you effectively lose an offensive action for it</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Needing to implement many many action tax and "you cant do this" to prevent cool things (like low level effective area attacks) from happening because it would be unbalanced in the system.</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>For me this clear: Can you sweat talk your GM to fart a werewolf to death in combat? Yes? Then its narrative.</p><p></p><p>And games with strict tactical combat systems are pretty much the opposite of this, especially when they do put the focus on combat like draw steel.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tigris, post: 9867991, member: 7043270"] Its a tactical combat rpg with some pbta inspired mechanics for the non combat part, as in its simple "roll dice + attribute + maybe skill bonus vs DC" but the outcome is not just bonary but has also "yes and", "yes but" and "no and worse". But many tactical rpgs do this (Beacon, Lancer, Icon etc.) I would not say it makes the narrative. Its not like 13th age which really wants to be more narrative and focused on theater of mind, its just a "we want to do it slightly different than D&D" Then about the main subcject: For me its [B]Pathfinder 2[/B] They had 2 "clever ideas" to have the "[B]3 action system[/B]" and to have the "[B]universal +-10 crit rule[/B]", which both sound elegant, but because of them the rest of the game cannot be elegant at all, just in order to make these 2 things work, and it causes soo many problems. [LIST] [*]Forces you to add huge modifiers to roll together in all cases even when in other games it would not be necassarily since it is clearly a hit/miss (to check if its +-10) [*]Extreme level scaling, doubling in power all 2 levels, severly limiting the range of enemies you can use. [*]Needing to teduce "normal" amount of monsters by half (compared to D&D 4e from which they have the encounter building), since having 3 actions per enemy can slow down things with too many enemies. [*]Making effects look really weak because they are often the weakest possible bonus (+1) feeling unrewarding [*]Also having some classes be really bland because they get just a small numerical modifier which is so stronge that it takes up a huge power budget. [*]Make spells feal weak because they fail more than 50% (to balance the small chance for the really strong crit) [*]Several attacks in the same turn having different modifiers which adds unecessary complexity [*]Having really weak 3rd actions which often dont matter [*]Making movement often unwanted because you effectively lose an offensive action for it [*]Needing to implement many many action tax and "you cant do this" to prevent cool things (like low level effective area attacks) from happening because it would be unbalanced in the system. [/LIST] For me this clear: Can you sweat talk your GM to fart a werewolf to death in combat? Yes? Then its narrative. And games with strict tactical combat systems are pretty much the opposite of this, especially when they do put the focus on combat like draw steel. [/QUOTE]
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