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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aust Diamondew" data-source="post: 2370702" data-attributes="member: 5156">Victory is simply over comming an obstacle so PCs can win (and will eventually loose in all likelihood just cause eventually your dice will screw you over).  If you say there is no winning or loosing in an RPG thats like saying characters in a book or people in real life for that matter can't win or loose ultimately.  So I think this really comes down to how you defind win or loose and big of a picture you want to look at.In fact after the end of my last campaign after the PCs had been victorious I told them that they had 'beat the game'.</blockquote>