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<blockquote data-quote="Arbiter of Wyrms" data-source="post: 2371495" data-attributes="member: 18021">I voted &quot;everybody wins punch and pie, even though we don't usually serve punch and only get pizza occasionally.&nbsp; I guess that while I would love to have Ms. Hayek's attention, I don't really hope to secure it by responding to this poll.&nbsp; As for the winning and losing, I feel like to &quot;win&quot; or to &quot;lose&quot; at a game, one player must defeat another.&nbsp; This is one of the things I really like about RPGs (okay, D&amp;D). One player doesn't defeat another player.&nbsp; If one player loses (dead PC), we all usually suffer as though a character on our favorite tv show died, but sometimes, knowing that a favorite character could die at any time just heightens interest. That's why networks always push trailers for dead characters at the season finale or when ratings flag. A TPK doesn't mean that the DM &quot;wins.&quot;&nbsp; When a bad sitcom gets cancelled, the producer/director gets fired just like the actors.&nbsp; As a matter of faith, I try to avoid competition and engage in cooperation.&nbsp; D&amp;D does that.&nbsp; The gothic horror of Ravenloft focuses on loss, betrayal, comeuppance and despair, so, in a sense, maybe everybody loses, but that's like saying that everybody loses when they see Titas Andronicus or Hamlet, when they read Frankenstein or Dracula.&nbsp; Heavy, moralistic tragedy can still be enjoyable, so I still think everybody wins.The desperate, torturous &quot;struggle-against-the-odds&quot; that is Dark Sun makes vistory rarer for the PCs, but that's what makes it so much richer.&nbsp; Some people like Jeopardy while others prefer Wheel of Fortune. Either is fine, but as an observer (who can skip commercials) rather than a participant (and even they never come out owing money), presumably, the person watching from home always wins.Planescape, at least for me, can feel like an &quot;Amazing Race&quot; finale where all the challenges are created by fiendish versions of Jon Stewart, Dennis Miller, Niccolo Machiavelli, and Plato, but hey - win or lose, you still get to have an all-expenses-paid world tour and minor noteriety, so win or lose, you still win.PCs can win or lose.&nbsp; If players lose, you're doin' it wrong.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Arbiter of Wyrms, post: 2371495, member: 18021"] I voted "everybody wins punch and pie, even though we don't usually serve punch and only get pizza occasionally. I guess that while I would love to have Ms. Hayek's attention, I don't really hope to secure it by responding to this poll. As for the winning and losing, I feel like to "win" or to "lose" at a game, one player must defeat another. This is one of the things I really like about RPGs (okay, D&D). One player doesn't [U]defeat[/U] another player. If one player loses (dead PC), we all usually suffer as though a character on our favorite tv show died, but sometimes, knowing that a favorite character could die at any time just heightens interest. That's why networks always push trailers for dead characters at the season finale or when ratings flag. A TPK doesn't mean that the DM "wins." When a bad sitcom gets cancelled, the producer/director gets fired just like the actors. As a matter of faith, I try to avoid competition and engage in cooperation. D&D does that. The gothic horror of Ravenloft focuses on loss, betrayal, comeuppance and despair, so, in a sense, maybe everybody loses, but that's like saying that everybody loses when they see Titas Andronicus or Hamlet, when they read Frankenstein or Dracula. Heavy, moralistic tragedy can still be enjoyable, so I still think everybody wins. The desperate, torturous "struggle-against-the-odds" that is Dark Sun makes vistory rarer for the PCs, but that's what makes it so much richer. Some people like [I]Jeopardy[/I] while others prefer [I]Wheel of Fortune[/I]. Either is fine, but as an observer (who can skip commercials) rather than a participant (and even they never come out owing money), presumably, the person watching from home always wins. Planescape, at least for me, can feel like an "Amazing Race" finale where all the challenges are created by fiendish versions of Jon Stewart, Dennis Miller, Niccolo Machiavelli, and Plato, but hey - win or lose, you still get to have an all-expenses-paid world tour and minor noteriety, so win or lose, you still win. PCs can win or lose. If [U]players[/U] lose, you're doin' it wrong. [/QUOTE]

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