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<blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 2400912" data-attributes="member: 12332">I'll chime to say that I think the d20 base modularity makes it extremely useful for all sorts of things. I think I'll say I'm one of those people that Rules Lite or Rules Heavy are really aspects of what the game is supposed to feel like.&nbsp; There are certain games I'd run with True20 and certain games I wouldn't.&nbsp; I have a gut-feeling that I wouldn't like True20 for a &quot;Gritty Crime Drama&quot; game.&nbsp; It's just too ... flat.&nbsp; But I wouldn't like GrimTales/Blood'n'Vigilance for a 4-color supers game.&nbsp; I WOULD like those rules (more involved, more specific) for a gritty low-supers game.I like having game system options.&nbsp; I ALSO like having a core system mechanic that crosses genres and systems.&nbsp; I can teach True20 to somebody that plays D&amp;D very easily.&nbsp; I can teach Grim Tales to somebody that plays True20 easily as well.&nbsp; I think my FAVORITE ALL TIME system would be Grim Tales + True20 laid out with Ben's brilliant little idea of rating the lethality (and I would include COMPLEXITY) of each ... step of resolution.&nbsp; It's like the &quot;Posterize&quot; task in Photoshop (I know alot of you don't use photoshop, so I'll explain.)Tru20 is broad shapes.&nbsp; Simple, fast to see, quick to conceptualize.&nbsp; It's the broad posterized shapes ... a face is a plane with circles for eyes and a line for the mouth, etc.&nbsp; Skills are tracked simply at &quot;max ranks&quot;, damage is static, survival is a single roll.&nbsp; But there are fewer fine motor skills ... you can't spread out your skills to be okay in many things and grand in nothing ... a gun is a gun is a gun.From there we move up, gaining resolution with each step ... from damage saves to hit points, from hit points to Massive Damage Saves, from MDT to specifics of MD thresholds and saving throws.&nbsp; From &quot;Gun +4&quot; to &quot;Glock 9mm 2d6&quot; to &quot;Specific ballistics of this round suggest an improved linear system of 1d10+2&quot;.&nbsp; From &quot;Known Skills&quot; to &quot;Skill Tiers&quot; to &quot;Skill Points&quot;.&nbsp; From &quot;Skills, Pick 6&quot; to &quot;Class Skills&quot; to &quot;Pick 3 background, 3 occupational, and 3 choice, modified by class&quot;.&nbsp; I would like it if True20 and Grim Tales were more mutually-inclusive ... it's stuff like &quot;Is Armor DR or AC&quot; that cause big problems.&nbsp; If I could move from &quot;Light Mail +4 Toughness&quot; to &quot;Light Mail 4 Damage Conversion&quot;, that would be great.&nbsp; But the Fewer Dead Heroes conversion mechanic, while wonderfully elegant, is still in the realm of &quot;Armor = AC&quot; ... have to figure out something there.&nbsp; If I could maintain True20's elegant &quot;Combat Bonus&quot; which applies to Attack AND Defense ... that would be nice as well. I'm not sure if I want to keep &quot;Talents&quot; and &quot;Feats&quot; or roll them all into &quot;Feats&quot;.&nbsp; I LIKE the further-divisioned &quot;Six Base Classes&quot; as opposed to the &quot;Roles&quot; of True20.&nbsp; I think there are too many problems and too much button-holing going on with True20 as it is to make it truly &quot;generic&quot;.&nbsp; It carries its fantasy-role-play roots too firmly in its core balancing mechanic, while the six base classes have enough give and take that you can totally remove &quot;FX&quot; from a game and keep them all viable, or set it Past/Modern/Future and have all of the classes viable.&nbsp; I, therefore, think an integrated mechanic to make Tough heroes tougher even at the &quot;Damage Save&quot; level would be needed.I think what I've seen of the 6-generic-classes system has sold me on it as &quot;Archetypal&quot; enough to speed up character generation and &quot;Flexible&quot; enough to encompass ANY character concept imaginable.&nbsp; Pure point-buy is very slow and hard to teach, total archetypes are hard to wrangle outside of their defined boundaries. That's my current rambling thought.--fje</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HeapThaumaturgist, post: 2400912, member: 12332"] I'll chime to say that I think the d20 base modularity makes it extremely useful for all sorts of things. I think I'll say I'm one of those people that Rules Lite or Rules Heavy are really aspects of what the game is supposed to feel like. There are certain games I'd run with True20 and certain games I wouldn't. I have a gut-feeling that I wouldn't like True20 for a "Gritty Crime Drama" game. It's just too ... flat. But I wouldn't like GrimTales/Blood'n'Vigilance for a 4-color supers game. I WOULD like those rules (more involved, more specific) for a gritty low-supers game. I like having game system options. I ALSO like having a core system mechanic that crosses genres and systems. I can teach True20 to somebody that plays D&D very easily. I can teach Grim Tales to somebody that plays True20 easily as well. I think my FAVORITE ALL TIME system would be Grim Tales + True20 laid out with Ben's brilliant little idea of rating the lethality (and I would include COMPLEXITY) of each ... step of resolution. It's like the "Posterize" task in Photoshop (I know alot of you don't use photoshop, so I'll explain.) Tru20 is broad shapes. Simple, fast to see, quick to conceptualize. It's the broad posterized shapes ... a face is a plane with circles for eyes and a line for the mouth, etc. Skills are tracked simply at "max ranks", damage is static, survival is a single roll. But there are fewer fine motor skills ... you can't spread out your skills to be okay in many things and grand in nothing ... a gun is a gun is a gun. From there we move up, gaining resolution with each step ... from damage saves to hit points, from hit points to Massive Damage Saves, from MDT to specifics of MD thresholds and saving throws. From "Gun +4" to "Glock 9mm 2d6" to "Specific ballistics of this round suggest an improved linear system of 1d10+2". From "Known Skills" to "Skill Tiers" to "Skill Points". From "Skills, Pick 6" to "Class Skills" to "Pick 3 background, 3 occupational, and 3 choice, modified by class". I would like it if True20 and Grim Tales were more mutually-inclusive ... it's stuff like "Is Armor DR or AC" that cause big problems. If I could move from "Light Mail +4 Toughness" to "Light Mail 4 Damage Conversion", that would be great. But the Fewer Dead Heroes conversion mechanic, while wonderfully elegant, is still in the realm of "Armor = AC" ... have to figure out something there. If I could maintain True20's elegant "Combat Bonus" which applies to Attack AND Defense ... that would be nice as well. I'm not sure if I want to keep "Talents" and "Feats" or roll them all into "Feats". I LIKE the further-divisioned "Six Base Classes" as opposed to the "Roles" of True20. I think there are too many problems and too much button-holing going on with True20 as it is to make it truly "generic". It carries its fantasy-role-play roots too firmly in its core balancing mechanic, while the six base classes have enough give and take that you can totally remove "FX" from a game and keep them all viable, or set it Past/Modern/Future and have all of the classes viable. I, therefore, think an integrated mechanic to make Tough heroes tougher even at the "Damage Save" level would be needed. I think what I've seen of the 6-generic-classes system has sold me on it as "Archetypal" enough to speed up character generation and "Flexible" enough to encompass ANY character concept imaginable. Pure point-buy is very slow and hard to teach, total archetypes are hard to wrangle outside of their defined boundaries. That's my current rambling thought. --fje [/QUOTE]

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