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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5504638" data-attributes="member: 61155">Again, pretty much just a superficial distinction. I don't see how that has any effect on the content itself.   Why ignore the setting books?  Anyway, they did provide alternate builds and powers. But, as you note, for the PHB 1, 2 and 3. Three seperate books. Arcane Power supported PHB1, PHB2, and FRPG. How is that any different from Heroes of Shadow supporting PHB1, HotFK, and HotFL? Your original comments seemed to be focused on the fact that you needed the Heroes books to make full use of Heroes of Shadow. The same is true of Arcane Power, and needing two more books than the PHB1 to get full use out of it.  There is no difference at all.   Only because HotFK and HotFL are taking the equivalent place of PHB4. Guess what? Psionic Power pretty much just supported PHB3 - it provided no support for PHB1 at all. Is that somehow better because PHB3 had the name "Player's Handbook" in the title? That somehow makes it a more important part of the game than the Essentials Heroes books?  I just still don't see the difference. You are ok with Arcane Power which supports the PHB1 and PHB2 and a setting book, the FRPG. You are ok with Psionic Power supporting PHB3 but not earlier books at all. But Heroes of Shadow, which also supports the most recent player books (HotFK and HotFL) but also supports the PHB1... is somehow a different approach?   The Mage and the Warpriest all use the standard advancement system. The Hexblade, Sentinel and Cavalier still have daily powers, even if they have no choices as far as Encounter powers. The Scout, Hunter, Thief, Slayer and Knight do not get Daily powers and do not have choices as far as Encounter powers.  And, in PHB3, we had Psionic classes who also had a different form of advancement for encounter powers.  So, again - was PHB3 and Psionic Power just as big a concern? Was it just as big a break in design philosophy from the previous books? PHB3 and Psionic Power provided no support for the PHB1 classes, outside of some race options and a few feats. Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms provided new utility powers for Rangers, Rogues and Fighters, new daily and utility powers for Warlocks, Druids and Paladins, and new daily, encounter, at-will and utility powers for Wizards and Clerics. Plus new feats for everyone.  Heroes of Shadow looks like it will provide new powers for Wizards, Clerics, Paladins and Warlocks. New races and Paragon Paths and feats for, presumably, nearly everyone.  No support has been taken away from prior products. Indeed, compared to PHB3 and Psionic Power, support has only been given back.   Which neither PHB2 nor PHB3 provided. A design decision that was made a while back.  It is true that Arcane Power provided support for the Con Warlock, Divine Power provided support for the Str Cleric, and Martial Powers provided support for the Str Ranger.  As for the Cleric and the Warlock in Heroes of Shadow - we honestly don't know yet, not having seen the powers in it. Even so, not supporting two specific builds from PHB1 hardly means that it does not support the PHB1 at all. Martial Power didn't support the Con Warlock or the Str Cleric either - but instead supported other classes instead.  The question isn't what Heroes of Shadow doesn't support, but instead what it does.</blockquote>

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