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Rule-of-Three: 06/19/2012
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<blockquote data-quote="Charles Dunwoody" data-source="post: 5950432" data-attributes="member: 17927"><p>I think your examples and reasoning as to why you like 4E makes sense and works well for you. The difficulty for someone like me, though, is when the story the designers make doesn't fit with the story I'm expecting.</p><p></p><p>In the PH 4E a paladin has no mount. A paladin can't buy a lance using the PH. He has no ride skill so must figure out another skill to use in its place and convince the DM that that skill works in any skill challenges (back to DM fiat). A paladin is not a paragon of virtue any longer.</p><p></p><p>In this case, the designers created a completely new version of the paladin that in few cases modeled the paladin of 1E, 2E, or 3E. As the player, trying to get a story out of the rules provided in the PH was impossible without DM fiat. As a DM, I had a tremendous amount of work to work around the missing rules for paladins (lance, ride, mount, paragon of virtue etc.).</p><p></p><p>I don't want that in 5E. If you want a paladin that walks everywhere at mid-levels, carries a battleaxe, and steals from people I want you to have that. I want to be able to have a knight in shining armor--lance, skilled rider, mount, and paragon of virtue. </p><p></p><p>No previous edition allows both easily. If 5E does it will a major accomplishment.</p><p></p><p>Of course, that still means negotiating between DM and player. Expectations for what a paladin is will have to be figured out ahead of time. But if the paladin class is marked as advanced or complicated and guidelines/advice for discussion between DM and player are given, 5E could allow for real choice about paladins for the first time in the history of D&D.</p><p></p><p>Will you still get story out of the mechanics? I hope so. But at the expense of me having to tell my story the way the designers want to tell the story? I hope not.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charles Dunwoody, post: 5950432, member: 17927"] I think your examples and reasoning as to why you like 4E makes sense and works well for you. The difficulty for someone like me, though, is when the story the designers make doesn't fit with the story I'm expecting. In the PH 4E a paladin has no mount. A paladin can't buy a lance using the PH. He has no ride skill so must figure out another skill to use in its place and convince the DM that that skill works in any skill challenges (back to DM fiat). A paladin is not a paragon of virtue any longer. In this case, the designers created a completely new version of the paladin that in few cases modeled the paladin of 1E, 2E, or 3E. As the player, trying to get a story out of the rules provided in the PH was impossible without DM fiat. As a DM, I had a tremendous amount of work to work around the missing rules for paladins (lance, ride, mount, paragon of virtue etc.). I don't want that in 5E. If you want a paladin that walks everywhere at mid-levels, carries a battleaxe, and steals from people I want you to have that. I want to be able to have a knight in shining armor--lance, skilled rider, mount, and paragon of virtue. No previous edition allows both easily. If 5E does it will a major accomplishment. Of course, that still means negotiating between DM and player. Expectations for what a paladin is will have to be figured out ahead of time. But if the paladin class is marked as advanced or complicated and guidelines/advice for discussion between DM and player are given, 5E could allow for real choice about paladins for the first time in the history of D&D. Will you still get story out of the mechanics? I hope so. But at the expense of me having to tell my story the way the designers want to tell the story? I hope not. [/QUOTE]
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