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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Riastlin" data-source="post: 5510017" data-attributes="member: 94022">Aye, each adventure does not necessarily in and of itself have to result in the saving of creation (or the cosmos) or whatever, but the story of the epic tier results in the saving of creation (or a major deity, or whatever).   As an example:  In heroic tier you take on the cult that is threatening to overthrow the kingdom.  In paragon tier you stop Orcus from unleashing his demon allies upon the world.  In epic tier, you take the fight to Orcus and eventually defeat him, perhaps even saving the Raven Queen in the process. At Defcon:  The problem with your approach though is that it borders on "If you are not already a great DM, don't bother."  I have a real problem with this kind of outlook personally.  I already know a number of players who refused to try to DM prior to 4th Ed. because it was "too hard".  At least some of them are trying it now.  But to come out and say "Well, we are not going to offer much help because, frankly, you need to already be great, in which case you don't need us." really sends us backward in my opinion. Now, that being said, I don't think we necessarily need an entire book devoted to Epic Tier monsters, but more monsters (particularly non-elite/solos) would be great.  A DMG 3 that offers advice on the types of stories that work well in epic tier would be great, or even with advice on designing epic tier encounters (how hard can you hit epic tier PCs?).  I agree that it should not necessarily be a focus for WotC, but there should be something there.  IIRC, 4ed is also the first edition that was really up front about expecting PCs to go to epic whereas prior editions it was seen as an add-on type thing.  I think this is a big reason why even experienced DMs are struggling with Epic because it is expected that PCs would eventually get there, but there is so little support for the DM when they do.</blockquote>

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