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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Barastrondo" data-source="post: 5511223" data-attributes="member: 3820">I really don't think it's a case of "scared of Epic" all the time. It's frequently a matter of doing something personal. I hate to invoke the specter of video games, but going to a very dangerous place and having a very dangerous boss fight is something I can get elsewhere. I already beat up Satan this year in the latest game to carry the Castlevania name. What keeps me coming back to RPGs are the things I can't do in video games, and that means a heavy emphasis on stuff outside of fighting, and of being able to choose destinies other than "you go to a very dangerous place and have a very dangerous boss fight." Well, take a step back. What this approach does is define players' motivations for them. When someone says they're interested in a thieves' guild, you can't assume that they will be equally as interested in dealing with the divine agents of a god of thieves as they will in the personalities of their various lieutenants and allies that they've built up over the years. Even if it makes little sense for characters to be actively agnostic or atheistic, to many players a profound interest in the divine plays directly against the perception of an affable rogue. It's like romantic interests: I think every player admits that a world needs them in the background to make sense, but that doesn't mean that every player wants to play through a romance at the table.You have to let the players decide why they're interested in what they're interested in. You can't tell them that they should also care about the metaphysical, otherworldly aspects of their physical, worldly concerns because that's what epic level assumes. If you want epic level to work at all, it needs to be built around their personal assumptions of why they like what they like.I have the same issues myself, albeit not for sword-and-sorcery. I'm running a swashbuckling D&D game best described as Assassin's Creed 2 + the Abhorsen series; it's very tied to the character of this one nation, very inspired by Renaissance Italy. If the game goes into epic, I don't think anyone wants it to abandon the country for an extraplanar milieu; it loses a good portion of the characters' point when they're not interacting with their Houses and the various princes and the assassins' guilds and actors' troupes that populate the campaign. I can certainly see how to build an "epic swashbuckler," but mechanically I think all I need for that is paragon tier. I freely admit I bring this problem on myself when I run highly themed games. Once you start picking out a more specific theme, sometimes limiting the tiers reinforces that theme more than being inclusive would.</blockquote>

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