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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5511500" data-attributes="member: 27160">I think one of the problems, with 4e, of starting at higher than 1st level is that it opens up the field for narrowly focussed, extreme builds more.  We are in Paragon now, and I don't recognise this issue - I suspect it is because the players all had to live with their character at levels 1-10, so taking something that only really motors at level 11 would have sucked for ages!My own, personal, take on this is that 4e magic items are not what they were in earlier editions - at least, in the original design philosophy.  4e magic items are party/character elements that are points-bought (with gp).  the 'items' that are thematic/story or scenario relevant and filled with "heart" are artifacts.  Artifacts can exist at any level and represent a huge, largely undeveloped, potential, it seems to me.  They already filled the slot that "Rare" items seem intended to fill - and filled it far better, since their mechanics were aimed specifically at a DM-controlled, not a player-controlled game element.  If you don't believe me, try reading the DMG section on them in detail.  It's good stuff.  All we need now are a lot more of them (or, alternatively, powers for them and more extensive design guidelines).Well, I would argue that the "you go to a very dangerous place and have a very dangerous boss fight" paradigm has elements in face-to-face play that it lacks in silicon-based play, and 4e takes advantage of these facets well.  If I want more setting/situation theme as a focus - or even deliberately kicking theme for story - I use other systems than D&D.  Some stuff I have read leads me to think D&D could maybe handle such play - but I still have to see it for myself.I agree that the character's motivations should be in the player's control, but if the player has no interest in playing Epic tier, I think it's a cop out to blame the character's motivations.  There are ways to engage this sort of character to 'Epic' play - e.g. having turned the Thieves' Guild to good, s/he finds that the old, evil god of thieves' cult is still working against that goal.  After putting them down a few times, it becomes clear that the real source of the trouble lies beyong this world - but if the problem is that the player doesn't want to engage in Epic play, the charater motivations seem highly unlikely to be the real reasons.Having said that, of course, the player has a perfect right to be uninterested in Epic play - but even so, the reasons might be worth examining.</blockquote>

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