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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thraug" data-source="post: 5515199" data-attributes="member: 84157">I wholeheartedly agree with you!  My current campaign is in mid Heroic and we're already seeing significant slowdown in combat and worst of all, keeping track of conditions, temp bonuses/penalties, ongoing powers, states, zones, is VERY taxing. We are all adults, 25+ year gaming vets, and most members of our group are smart folks with very technical occupations, but we find 4e combats are playing US more than we are enjoying the battle as a flowing struggle we can sink our narrative teeth into. We spend well over 90% of every combat doing crunch and tracking conditions and temporary bonuses and penalties. The helpers we used/tried, such as combat managers, condition tokens and cards, or other game aids have helped some, but we still find the amount of work involved in managing a single combat to be very demanding.As a GM, I'm dreading what paragon brings and can't imagine what combats will be like in epic!  4e combats are about 4x more demanding than we would like.  Waaay too many player options (dragging combat to a crawl), too many conditions to track, and tracking power-specific boons and penalties is brain numbing. My brain is crunched at work, I don't want to have to memorize or track 15 things a turn in a game when I come home. I can't imagine subjecting a non-gaming new player to 4e. Do they ever return for another session? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></blockquote>

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